Cardiff City Footballer Feared Missing after aircraft disappeared near Channel Island
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Premier League Football Clubs have rules that govern how footballers behave on and off the field. Why? Because many of them don’t have very good decision making of their own and they represent a huge investment. Therefore most Football Clubs would have checked the travel arrangements and vetoed them if unsuitable. Whether this was a failure by the Directors/Manager or the employee who was looking after Sala, I think the Football Club were careless and have paid a price for it.
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Do we know whether Sala was officially under contract at Cardiff?
We are told he has signed to Cardiff but was it all cut and dried with signatures on the dotted lined and was he or not on the Cardiff insurance schedule.
It appears he had not started at the club yet with all this shuttling back and fro so maybe not which might explain why Cardiff were sort of offering him a alternative flight arrangement rather than telling him "these are your flights which you will use"
We are told he has signed to Cardiff but was it all cut and dried with signatures on the dotted lined and was he or not on the Cardiff insurance schedule.
It appears he had not started at the club yet with all this shuttling back and fro so maybe not which might explain why Cardiff were sort of offering him a alternative flight arrangement rather than telling him "these are your flights which you will use"
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Do we know whether Sala was officially under contract at Cardiff?
We are told he has signed to Cardiff but was it all cut and dried with signatures on the dotted lined and was he or not on the Cardiff insurance schedule.
It appears he had not started at the club yet with all this shuttling back and fro so maybe not which might explain why Cardiff were sort of offering him a alternative flight arrangement rather than telling him "these are your flights which you will use"
We are told he has signed to Cardiff but was it all cut and dried with signatures on the dotted lined and was he or not on the Cardiff insurance schedule.
It appears he had not started at the club yet with all this shuttling back and fro so maybe not which might explain why Cardiff were sort of offering him a alternative flight arrangement rather than telling him "these are your flights which you will use"
No insurance
But it's illegal to fly an aircraft without insurance.
An aircraft must be insured before it can fly
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I hope this particular tragic accident will lead to a very bold line to be drawn between recreational and commercial flying. From whatever perspective this accident is viewed from the inescapable truth is the same. This flight took place for no other reason than to transport a passenger whose sole intention was to get to his destination expeditiously and, safely. That latter requirement would appear to have been compromised by the choice of the manner in which he was transported. The extent of the shortcomings of which were of such severity that when in conspiring to combine in the way that they did, it led to loss of life. It has been proven over and over, it is never a single factor, it is always a combination of a number of factors that when combined lead to tragic loss of life in the air. Human factors play a most significant part in this causal chain of events. These are not necessarily always a factor that arise in the cockpit.
Does the EASA third party insurance requirements apply to all civil aircraft in EASA airspace, or to civil aircraft landing in EASA countries, or only to civil aircraft registered in EASA countries?
I think there is some confusion on this thread - no one builds hours at age 59. Build them for what - to get a CPL ? Once your are 60 you cannot legally fly single crew commercial flights - even with a CPL . Can't think of an airline who would take a low time 60 years old with no commercial experience for two crew ops.
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When operating under the N reg outside of the US wherever there is a conflict between the FAR and the rules of the foreign country then the more restrictive rule will apply.
Quite right about confusion. There is no FAA regulation that prohibits me, an FAA CPL well over 60, from flying single crew commercial flights. That could be glider towing, crop spraying, banner towing, parachute operations etc. Commercial operation is far more extensive than part 121 operation.
Last edited by Good Business Sense; 15th Feb 2019 at 23:34.
Yeh, confusion indeed - A 59 year old UK resident with a UK PPL and an FAA add on based on his EASA license is what we're talking about - can I suggest that you read up on the EASA regulations which apply in this case - particularly on the examples you gave. Getting back to the point raised i.e. hour building - the pilot in this case had plenty of hours.
FCL.065 Curtailment of privileges of licence holders aged 60 years or more in commercial air transport (a) Age 60-64. Aeroplanes and helicopters. The holder of a pilot licence who has attained the age of 60 years shall not act as a pilot of an aircraft engaged in commercial air transport except as a member of a multi-pilot crew.
"Commercial air transport" means the transport of passengers, cargo or mail for remuneration or hire.
How would this regulation apply to, for example, banner towing, crop spraying, or glider towing? Perhaps there is another EASA regulation that does apply?
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How would this regulation apply to, for example, banner towing, crop spraying, or glider towing? Perhaps there is another EASA regulation that does apply?
There is a brief article about the cost sharing/pseudo charter situation in the current Private Eye. Reasonably well informed by the standards of the non specialist press.
The post I answered was not specific to the accident pilot. It was a statement with no context and demonstrably untrue in the context for which I responded. If you want to narrow the context to EASA rules perhaps you could provide a reference. The only EASA rules I have have found relating to age 60 single pilot operations apply only to Commercial Air Transport.
FCL.065 Curtailment of privileges of licence holders aged 60 years or more in commercial air transport (a) Age 60-64. Aeroplanes and helicopters. The holder of a pilot licence who has attained the age of 60 years shall not act as a pilot of an aircraft engaged in commercial air transport except as a member of a multi-pilot crew.
"Commercial air transport" means the transport of passengers, cargo or mail for remuneration or hire.
How would this regulation apply to, for example, banner towing, crop spraying, or glider towing? Perhaps there is another EASA regulation that does apply?
FCL.065 Curtailment of privileges of licence holders aged 60 years or more in commercial air transport (a) Age 60-64. Aeroplanes and helicopters. The holder of a pilot licence who has attained the age of 60 years shall not act as a pilot of an aircraft engaged in commercial air transport except as a member of a multi-pilot crew.
"Commercial air transport" means the transport of passengers, cargo or mail for remuneration or hire.
How would this regulation apply to, for example, banner towing, crop spraying, or glider towing? Perhaps there is another EASA regulation that does apply?
If people would rather take the view that a 59 year old pilot is building hours, spending perhaps a year or so passing exams, and spending tens of thousands of pounds on a CPL so that he can tow banners etc at, if he's lucky, £30 per hour that's absolutely fine and there lies my response.
Now, if you wish to discuss FARs disregarding the thread topic and conversation then fill your boots.
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No context ? The subject matter of this thread is more than obvious and the conversation above, over the last few weeks, clearly indicates what we are talking about.
If people would rather take the view that a 59 year old pilot is building hours, spending perhaps a year or so passing exams, and spending tens of thousands of pounds on a CPL so that he can tow banners etc at, if he's lucky, £30 per hour that's absolutely fine and there lies my response.
Now, if you wish to discuss FARs disregarding the thread topic and conversation then fill your boots.
If people would rather take the view that a 59 year old pilot is building hours, spending perhaps a year or so passing exams, and spending tens of thousands of pounds on a CPL so that he can tow banners etc at, if he's lucky, £30 per hour that's absolutely fine and there lies my response.
Now, if you wish to discuss FARs disregarding the thread topic and conversation then fill your boots.
Last edited by positiverate20; 16th Feb 2019 at 10:50.
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On the insurance , if is interesting to see there seem to be a lot of lawyers, insurance experts here , but the reality is a bit different .
I just looked in my insurance certificate on my aircraft (registered in Germany) and it is all there . .
The insurance part has nothing to do with EASA( or FAA) in fact , it is up to each State in which you want to operate.into.,and it is the European Parliament that did set the rules in 2004 , ( Regulation EC no 785/2004 ) so , yes, in the EU , liability for 3rd party insurance it is mandatory and the minimum is set per weight (MTOW) . For my aircraft it is 1,5 Million SDR ( a SDR is a little bit more than 1 euro )
But individual states can ask for a higher amount , for instance in Austria it is 3 million. ( the highest in Europe) so if I want to fly only in my country and it only applies the legal minimum ( like in Germany) I can have an insurance of 1.5 Milion , but if I want to fly in the whole of Europe I must increase my insurance to cover 3 million, .
It does not matter where the aircraft is registered , it is operating in the country that counts , because each country can set its own values, even inside the EU / EASA land..
Don't worry I leaned also something today :-)
I just looked in my insurance certificate on my aircraft (registered in Germany) and it is all there . .
The insurance part has nothing to do with EASA( or FAA) in fact , it is up to each State in which you want to operate.into.,and it is the European Parliament that did set the rules in 2004 , ( Regulation EC no 785/2004 ) so , yes, in the EU , liability for 3rd party insurance it is mandatory and the minimum is set per weight (MTOW) . For my aircraft it is 1,5 Million SDR ( a SDR is a little bit more than 1 euro )
But individual states can ask for a higher amount , for instance in Austria it is 3 million. ( the highest in Europe) so if I want to fly only in my country and it only applies the legal minimum ( like in Germany) I can have an insurance of 1.5 Milion , but if I want to fly in the whole of Europe I must increase my insurance to cover 3 million, .
It does not matter where the aircraft is registered , it is operating in the country that counts , because each country can set its own values, even inside the EU / EASA land..
Don't worry I leaned also something today :-)
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On the insurance , if is interesting to see there seem to be a lot of lawyers, insurance experts here , but the reality is a bit different .
I just looked in my insurance certificate on my aircraft (registered in Germany) and it is all there . .
The insurance part has nothing to do with EASA( or FAA) in fact , it is up to each State in which you want to operate.into.,and it is the European Parliament that did set the rules in 2004 , ( Regulation EC no 785/2004 ) so , yes, in the EU , liability for 3rd party insurance it is mandatory and the minimum is set per weight (MTOW) . For my aircraft it is 1,5 Million SDR ( a SDR is a little bit more than 1 euro )
But individual states can ask for a higher amount , for instance in Austria it is 3 million. ( the highest in Europe) so if I want to fly only in my country and it only applies the legal minimum ( like in Germany) I can have an insurance of 1.5 Milion , but if I want to fly in the whole of Europe I must increase my insurance to cover 3 million, .
It does not matter where the aircraft is registered , it is operating in the country that counts , because each country can set its own values, even inside the EU / EASA land..
Don't worry I leaned also something today :-)
I just looked in my insurance certificate on my aircraft (registered in Germany) and it is all there . .
The insurance part has nothing to do with EASA( or FAA) in fact , it is up to each State in which you want to operate.into.,and it is the European Parliament that did set the rules in 2004 , ( Regulation EC no 785/2004 ) so , yes, in the EU , liability for 3rd party insurance it is mandatory and the minimum is set per weight (MTOW) . For my aircraft it is 1,5 Million SDR ( a SDR is a little bit more than 1 euro )
But individual states can ask for a higher amount , for instance in Austria it is 3 million. ( the highest in Europe) so if I want to fly only in my country and it only applies the legal minimum ( like in Germany) I can have an insurance of 1.5 Milion , but if I want to fly in the whole of Europe I must increase my insurance to cover 3 million, .
It does not matter where the aircraft is registered , it is operating in the country that counts , because each country can set its own values, even inside the EU / EASA land..
Don't worry I leaned also something today :-)
I already linked all this information several posts back without being a lawyer or an insurance agent......
So in any case- even if Henderson had have flown using his CPL, it would have been illegal as he's over 60. The only way to make it legal would be by having a 2nd pilot (multi-pilot crew). So... that brings us nicely back to the reported additional identification shown at Nantes? However, Ibbotson still only had a PPL so couldn't really have been part of a multi-pilot crew on a commercial flight (in order to legitimize Henderson being over 60).
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And what does your insurance say about passengers? In this case, no third party was harmed, but instead a very "precious" (in terms of money) passenger. On commercial air transport there is a minimum (ridiculously low!) sum for which every passenger is insured, with private flights there is usually none at all. So all claims will be go directly to the pilot in command (or his estate) or to whoever is deemed responsible by the lawyers working on the case.
So in any case- even if Henderson had have flown using his CPL, it would have been illegal as he's over 60. The only way to make it legal would be by having a 2nd pilot (multi-pilot crew). So... that brings us nicely back to the reported additional identification shown at Nantes? However, Ibbotson still only had a PPL so couldn't really have been part of a multi-pilot crew on a commercial flight (in order to legitimize Henderson being over 60).
So the flight would have been legal if Henderson flew it, assuming he holds an FAA CPL and not an EASA one. It became illegal when a pilot without a commercial licence was somehow subcontracted to fly it.