Cardiff City Footballer Feared Missing after aircraft disappeared near Channel Island
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One of the news reports I read indicated that they retrieved the body by ROV. I don't have time to look for it right now but I'm pretty sure that was the case.
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The AAIB update says ROV " in as dignified a way as possible "
https://www.itv.com/news/channel/201...w-sala-search/
It seems the Sala family organised the private search using money raised from the crowdfunding. With that amount, exceeding the target, raised so fast, they would have little need to spend their own money.
A crowdfunding page has surpassed its target, raising more than £270,000 since Friday to start a new search to find the plane carrying missing footballer Emiliano Sala and pilot David Ibbotson.
The Sala family is planning to organise a private search with hired divers, according to Argentinian media outlet Ole.
The Sala family is planning to organise a private search with hired divers, according to Argentinian media outlet Ole.
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Yes Arfur they can. It involves the technique known as mixed gas diving where Helium is mixed in with oxygen. It is very much an area for commercial divers. Any underwater work to be carried out for extended periods of time involves bell diving with a compressed air chamber situated on the deck of the dive vessel, referred to in those circles as the pot, for the divers to gradually decompress to atmospheric pressure.
You are quite correct about human dexterity. In the event AAIB require for the wreckage to be recovered with minimal damage, then human divers at this depth would provide for greater chance of success than ROV`s. They would be able to place pneumatic lift bags at pre determined positions to maintain structural integrity during the lift and possibly raise it sufficiently above the sea bed before installing the wreckage in a cradle to bring it to the surface. It is all a matter of cost/benefit for the decision as to which method to use. A decision that I would guess to be made by AAIB, only they are in a position to evaluate whether they need the aircraft as intact as possible or otherwise.
You are quite correct about human dexterity. In the event AAIB require for the wreckage to be recovered with minimal damage, then human divers at this depth would provide for greater chance of success than ROV`s. They would be able to place pneumatic lift bags at pre determined positions to maintain structural integrity during the lift and possibly raise it sufficiently above the sea bed before installing the wreckage in a cradle to bring it to the surface. It is all a matter of cost/benefit for the decision as to which method to use. A decision that I would guess to be made by AAIB, only they are in a position to evaluate whether they need the aircraft as intact as possible or otherwise.
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This is all very sad, one person recovered and one still missing, but reporting search to be called off for weather. I only hope they resume to recover the pilot, even if the plane stays down, its looking a little like we have the main man so no more money available, but all men should be equal and irrespective of their upbringing, background etc., I hope they resume and find some kind of closure for David Ibbotsons family also. RIP.
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This is all very sad, one person recovered and one still missing, but reporting search to be called off for weather. I only hope they resume to recover the pilot, even if the plane stays down, its looking a little like we have the main man so no more money available, but all men should be equal and irrespective of their upbringing, background etc., I hope they resume and find some kind of closure for David Ibbotsons family also. RIP.
Almost certainly given the currents and hundreds of miles of beaches around that area his body will come ashore in the very near future.
Prior to August 4, 1997 the FAA did issue commercial certificates under 61.75. But there would be a limitation added that said you could not operate an aircraft carrying passengers or cargo for compensation or hire. While the FAA no longer issues commercial certificates under 61.75, if the underlying license is still valid the 61.75 would also still be valid. There was also in 61.75 a line saying the you could not crop dust using a 61.75 cert.
Some consolation and relief for one family - at least which is some news.
The PM will determine cause of death of Mr Sala - being if he died on impact or drowned trapped in unconsciousness or if he was conscious - The forensic science will know.
I have no doubt that the aircraft wreckage will be recovered to the surface once the weather allows, although pretty wild again here near Weymouth today with a poor forecast for next 24 hours or so.
If recovery is not done now I reckon it will be in the future.
Any evidence found in the wreck there should reveal something - type of damage, Instruments ,Controls, Mobiles, GPS I-pads etc will be of great interest.
The Pilot may have escaped the crash but succumbed to the sea, or thrown out on impact or during submersion - his body will have been taken by the sea and perhaps be washed ashore somewhere - The mention of seat cushions being found on shore suggest their egress either by the accident or by a person.
There is a £15m contractual asset claim ongoing between the 2 Football teams...To try not to appear brutal the fact is Nantes want paying for Mr Sala.
I would suggest that both Mr Sala and likely Mr Ibbotson were both 'life' insured, either personally and/or via any Company insurance they may have had.
Mr Sala's employment contract may also have had further Insurance to cover his death ''whilst in service''.
All the insurance companies will want to look closely at any evidence found as to how this accident occurred, and if the carriage of the passenger was legal, and if any type of ''contract'' of carriage whether it be formal or informal that Mr Sala had, or had not engaged with, and with who, as this will all be pertinent to any claims.
The PM will determine cause of death of Mr Sala - being if he died on impact or drowned trapped in unconsciousness or if he was conscious - The forensic science will know.
I have no doubt that the aircraft wreckage will be recovered to the surface once the weather allows, although pretty wild again here near Weymouth today with a poor forecast for next 24 hours or so.
If recovery is not done now I reckon it will be in the future.
Any evidence found in the wreck there should reveal something - type of damage, Instruments ,Controls, Mobiles, GPS I-pads etc will be of great interest.
The Pilot may have escaped the crash but succumbed to the sea, or thrown out on impact or during submersion - his body will have been taken by the sea and perhaps be washed ashore somewhere - The mention of seat cushions being found on shore suggest their egress either by the accident or by a person.
There is a £15m contractual asset claim ongoing between the 2 Football teams...To try not to appear brutal the fact is Nantes want paying for Mr Sala.
I would suggest that both Mr Sala and likely Mr Ibbotson were both 'life' insured, either personally and/or via any Company insurance they may have had.
Mr Sala's employment contract may also have had further Insurance to cover his death ''whilst in service''.
All the insurance companies will want to look closely at any evidence found as to how this accident occurred, and if the carriage of the passenger was legal, and if any type of ''contract'' of carriage whether it be formal or informal that Mr Sala had, or had not engaged with, and with who, as this will all be pertinent to any claims.
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'Too much uninformed speculation as to the movement/location of victims of this accident. Known facts only please. The "peace" which posters are wishing the victims with those "RIP"s is being violated by meaningless speculation.
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Gentlemen [as most of you will be] ... a serious question.
Mr. Ibbotson's Licence and Log book presumably travelled with him, in his 'Nav Bag'? As did, probably, his cellphone. The details therein are thus critical to any enquiry. Are they stored elsewhere, on a database, or do those documents form the only record of licensing and currency? Would the attempted recovery of said bag not be significant, or am I overthinking a subject about which i confess I know nothing?
Mr. Ibbotson's Licence and Log book presumably travelled with him, in his 'Nav Bag'? As did, probably, his cellphone. The details therein are thus critical to any enquiry. Are they stored elsewhere, on a database, or do those documents form the only record of licensing and currency? Would the attempted recovery of said bag not be significant, or am I overthinking a subject about which i confess I know nothing?
Avoid imitations
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Gentlemen [as most of you will be] ... a serious question.
Mr. Ibbotson's Licence and Log book presumably travelled with him, in his 'Nav Bag'? As did, probably, his cellphone. The details therein are thus critical to any enquiry. Are they stored elsewhere, on a database, or do those documents form the only record of licensing and currency? Would the attempted recovery of said bag not be significant, or am I overthinking a subject about which i confess I know nothing?
Mr. Ibbotson's Licence and Log book presumably travelled with him, in his 'Nav Bag'? As did, probably, his cellphone. The details therein are thus critical to any enquiry. Are they stored elsewhere, on a database, or do those documents form the only record of licensing and currency? Would the attempted recovery of said bag not be significant, or am I overthinking a subject about which i confess I know nothing?
The requirement is to complete one's log book "in a reasonable time".
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And his 'qualifications' ... Do pilots carry their Licence with them? Are the details on a database somewhere? My long-expired PPL has a stamp for "Group A: Landplanes" (Ministry of Aviation!) and my Logbook just has "Piper Colt, Day only". I doubt any of that is electronically stored, dating as it does from 1963!
I'm just curious about the missing bits of the equation, as an onlooker.
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Sadly for him, time is no longer relevant. Thus presumably AAIB will seek to find it and determine currency.
And his 'qualifications' ... Do pilots carry their Licence with them?
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Thanks.
So his Licence, with 'endorsements', is presumably underwater. Unlike my PPL, am I right in assuming that they are therefore on databases somewhere? i won't go technical on FAA/CAA, just ... they do exist above the surface of the water. Apologies if that sounds cynical, my knowledge of the subject is of course close to Zero, just wondering how the 'legality' angle gets unravelled.
So his Licence, with 'endorsements', is presumably underwater. Unlike my PPL, am I right in assuming that they are therefore on databases somewhere? i won't go technical on FAA/CAA, just ... they do exist above the surface of the water. Apologies if that sounds cynical, my knowledge of the subject is of course close to Zero, just wondering how the 'legality' angle gets unravelled.
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Yes the AAIB will search for his Log Book to determine experience. Unfortunately some Log Books are not found or the pilot has not filled it in for some time ( often years). In those cases the AAIB look for other ways to calculate experience ( employers records for instance) or sometimes they have to say in the final report ...unknown. Another good source is the pilots medical renewal forms which require hours to be filled in.
Licences have to be carried so are often lost in the accident. However holders of an AOC are required to keep records so the data is available. For
Private Pilots all that was required for revalidation in the past was a signature in the licence, but nowadays returns are required by the CAA.
Documents which are required to be carried are also sometimes lost, e.g C of A, C of R etc. However, all this data is held by the CAA/FAA and maintenance organisations, so can be easily retrieved.
Licences have to be carried so are often lost in the accident. However holders of an AOC are required to keep records so the data is available. For
Private Pilots all that was required for revalidation in the past was a signature in the licence, but nowadays returns are required by the CAA.
Documents which are required to be carried are also sometimes lost, e.g C of A, C of R etc. However, all this data is held by the CAA/FAA and maintenance organisations, so can be easily retrieved.
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Thanks again ... my interest, if I can use that term, was how AAIB might be able to determine licensing and currency aspects. I shall withdraw and leave the rest to experts.
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The original document may be lost. But the examiner/instructor who does the bi-annual flight review for the PPL (required for EASA as well as FAA) needs to submit the relevant paperwork to the authorities. This includes the number of hours flown. So something should be on file from which the currency of a pilot can be determined. Maybe not his compliance with the 30-day-rule when his logbook is lost.
