Cardiff City Footballer Feared Missing after aircraft disappeared near Channel Island

[double_barrel]

Originally Posted by Mike Flynn

No pictures have emerged of the front section of the aircraft.

Possibly because it contains a body?!

[DaveReidUK]

Originally Posted by Mike Flynn

It seems highly likely that the body is that of the passenger who would have been seated in the back. No pictures have emerged of the front section of the aircraft.

That depends. It's not clear from the statements whether it has been confirmed there is/was only one body on the aircraft, or whether it just means that only one is/was visible to the divers. If one of the occupants had managed to extricate himself from the aircraft, I would expect it to be the younger, fitter one who was sitting nearest the exit (unless of course the fuselage was breached).

Originally Posted by Mike Flynn

The AAIB have indicated they will not recover wreckage so I assume it is unlikely there will be any private effort to raise it.

Again, that may depend on which body has been recovered - I guess we will be told that in the next few hours.

If Sala's remains are still unrecovered, and there is a possibility that the body is inside the wreck, well the family had enough resources to fund a private search so I wouldn't be surprised if they mounted a private recovery effort. While the poor weather has forced the AAIB's recovery operation to be abandoned, the location of the wreck is now known and it's not as if it's going anywhere.

[double_barrel]

Originally Posted by DaveReidUK

If one of the occupants had managed to extricate himself from the aircraft, I would expect it to be the younger, fitter one who was sitting nearest the exit (unless of course the fuselage was breached)..

And the one unencumbered by controls, headset cables, and a face full of freezing water on impact.

[Union Jack]

Relevant Sky and BBC links, offered without comment on their accuracy:

https://news.sky.com/story/body-reco...ckage-11630221 and https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-47152773

Jack

[Arfur Dent]

Can divers descend to 220ft or was the body recovered by ROV? I suppose wrapping some kind of cable around points of the wreckage strong enough to lift the aircraft to the surface would require the dexterity of divers. Not sure.

[bbrown1664]

Originally Posted by Arfur Dent

Can divers descend to 220ft or was the body recovered by ROV? .

67m is well within the reach of a technical or professional diver. A recreational (PADI advanced) diver typically goes to 40m on compressed air but beyond that technical divers using tri-mix or just a lot more compressed air can go significantly deeper with 100m not unknown.

[EGPI10BR]

Originally Posted by Arfur Dent

Can divers descend to 220ft or was the body recovered by ROV? I suppose wrapping some kind of cable around points of the wreckage strong enough to lift the aircraft to the surface would require the dexterity of divers. Not sure.

Even experienced recreational divers can dive to depths 100m or greater (mainly using closed circuit rebreather technology.)
It would be well within the depth of a commercial diver.

Misty.

[rog747]

Statement from Dorset police

#LatestNews - Statement in relation to body recovered at Portland Port

On Monday 21 January 2019 a plane carrying pilot David Ibbotson and professional footballer Emiliano Sala was flying from Nantes to Cardiff when it lost contact with Air Traffic Control, north of Guernsey.

Sadly a search and rescue operation was unsuccessful in locating the plane and the two occupants. Subsequently AAIB and privately funded search teams were deployed to the relevant area. Using specialist equipment the teams succeeded in locating and identifying the plane and one body has been recovered.

This morning, Thursday 7 February 2019, the body was brought to Portland Port, Dorset, as this is the nearest part of the British mainland to where the plane was located.

The arrival of the body into Dorset has been reported to the Coroner for Dorset. The Coroner will investigate the circumstances of this death supported by Dorset Police. A post mortem examination will be held in due course.

While formal identification is yet to take place, the families of Emiliano Sala and David Ibbotson have been updated and will continue to be supported by specially-trained family liaison officers, during this difficult time.

[pilotmike]

Originally Posted by DaveReidUK

..., well the family had enough resources to fund a private search so I wouldn't be surprised if they mounted a private recovery effort...

All the news reports I saw stated that the privately funded search was funded by donations, with no mention made of any money coming from 'family resources'.

[draglift]

I presume a post mortem on the recovered body will establish if the cause of death was blunt force trauma injury or death by drowning. If a body has been immersed in the sea for two weeks is it still possible to tell if death was caused by drowning or not?

[S-Works]

Originally Posted by draglift

I presume a post mortem on the recovered body will establish if the cause of death was blunt force trauma injury or death by drowning. If a body has been immersed in the sea for two weeks is it still possible to tell if death was caused by drowning or not?

Yes....... Forensic science is very capable of determining cause of death.

[deltafox44]

Originally Posted by DaveReidUK

If Sala's remains are still unrecovered, and there is a possibility that the body is inside the wreck, well the family had enough resources to fund a private search so I wouldn't be surprised if they mounted a private recovery effort. While the poor weather has forced the AAIB's recovery operation to be abandoned, the location of the wreck is now known and it's not as if it's going anywhere.

There has been an extensive search around the wreckage, and only 1 body found. The missing body would have been ejected from the plane at the impact, as the seat cushions. Nobody knows where it can be now, it will only will be found within 3 months on the Cotentin beaches...

The family may decide to recover the plane, it has been stimated at less than ⅓ of the 300,000€ donated (if any money left by David Mearns ).

[ChickenHouse]

The forensics does quite well in such cases, but let's see which body it was they recovered.
The more interesting one for the investigation would definitely be the pilot.
I fear the soccer player does a better media coverage than the plumber.

[piperboy84]

I suppose the license held issue in this whole tragedy is a bit of a red herring as to the cause. The bottom line is no matter how many endorsements & ratings one has in their logbook,unless your work is in a professional environment where flight and passenger safety is trained, procedurelised and regulated, and where you eat, sleep and breathe performing flights for paying customer on a regular basis with recurring training, performance assessments and currency requirements, you’re really not a commercial pilot even if your license says so, you’re just a jumped up private pilot chancing your arm.

[PDR1]

Originally Posted by piperboy84

I suppose the license held issue in this whole tragedy is a bit of a red herring as to the cause. The bottom line is no matter how many endorsements & ratings one has in their logbook,unless your work is in a professional environment where flight and passenger safety is trained, procedurelised and regulated, and where you eat, sleep and breathe performing flights for paying customer on a regular basis with recurring training, performance assessments and currency requirements, you’re really not a commercial pilot even if your license says so, you’re just a jumped up private pilot chancing your arm.

I guess that must be why no experienced commercial pilot ever made a mistake that led to a fata crash.

Oh, hang on a minute...

PDR

[DaveReidUK]

Originally Posted by pilotmike

All the news reports I saw stated that the privately funded search was funded by donations, with no mention made of any money coming from 'family resources'.

[dsc810]

The fund raising is apparently being done via the gofundme site
Here is the link for those interested.......

https://www.gofundme.com/nodejendebuscar-emiliano-sala

[POBJOY]

DUTY OF CARE PATH

PDR1 & PB 84
The whole point here is there is no clear 'path' on responsibility (or easily found records), and therefore only a very messy legal battle will ensue that in itself will only feed the lawyers, but will not put anything back into the system (as no system was being followed).
No one is saying operating under an AOC is trouble or incident free, but it does ensure a 'DUTY OF CARE' path that is 'traceable' on most of the counts.
That is the big difference in this sort of case as any obvious deficiencies can be fed back into the system for future operations.
The big question is who wishes to pay for this 'service' as the travelling public are frequently not aware of the fact that the charges made are due to the SAFETY element of a flight and nothing else.
I think we all know who the authorities and legal beavers will be looking at to start the trail in this case.

[Ancient-Mariner]

Originally Posted by EXDAC

This is why I am so interested in actually seeing a UK PPL with no night or instrument ratings. If it does have the actual words "Day VFR only", or similar, then flight in IMC would not be allowed using an FAA 61.75 with an instrument rating. It is not allowed, according to the regulation as written, because it is prohibited by a restriction / limitation of the base UK licence. If, however, the base UK licence grants Day VFR privileges solely because there is no night rating and no instrument rating then the 61.75 with IR would allow operation under IFR in IMC.

My UK PPL issued September 1999 does not have either the word Night or Day printed on it. (I never took either a Night or IMC Rating)
That said, my Flight Radio-Telephony Operator's Licence issued June 1999 neither has VHF or HF printed on it. Perhaps unusually(?) for a PPL I decided to obtain a full VHF/HF RTF and took the written HF exam. Initially the CAA did not fully read my application form and issued me with a VHF only (or some similar words) licence. I queried this and it was replaced with the one I have just described.
Brevity in style can be confusing.

[GordonR_Cape]

Originally Posted by elmorejames

I asked this question, along with other posters, some hours ago and they were removed by the mods. I ask again, is it possible to remove a body by ROV, or were divers sent down?

Multiple sources have stated that no divers were sent down. Those ROVs are used on oil wells. They have cameras and arms, and can weld, cut, lift, and do almost anything a human can.

Edit: Link: https://deepoceangroup.com/services/imr/wrov-operations/

The Work ROV is the work horse of the subsea services spread and operators extended arm into subsea. Typically equipped with two manipulators the work ROV can both do rough operations and delicate finger tip work at several thousand meters depth.