Cardiff City Footballer Feared Missing after aircraft disappeared near Channel Island
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I have read that myself so it now opens up an investigation into how his ID was visibly checked by a French Airport official? If it has been submitted as an ID I think it is fair to say that it wasn't Emiliano Sala who submitted it as his ID so it to some degree points towards the Pilot having mistakenly shown an incorrect ID at some point of his transit through the airport?
That can be the only feasible explanation? D
That can be the only feasible explanation? D
However any of us could give you a perfectly reasonable explanation of how Henderson’s “ID” ( note the inverted commas) came into the frame.
As has been explained if the pilot was short of cash/lost his credit card then it would not be unbelievable for Henderson to lend him a company credit card to use for the flight expenses. When I had one my name appeared on the card.
There would have been bills to pay at Nantes prior to departure for fuel, parking, landing fees, handling etc. Probably paid on said credit card.
When the poo hit the fan later it would not be unreasonable ( in the middle of the night) for the French authorities to look through the movements log and get the name Henderson from the payment records and put one and one together and make three.
I’m sure there are other pilots on here who could probably give you other examples of how this error could occur....if they were so inclined.
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I am sure that most players in this sorry saga have well and truly gone to ground. In doing so, should they have been involved in dubious actions, such activities and elements which were unacceptable or controversial will have been sanitised.
Future legal jurisprudence has many elements which need to come together to resolve what happened. It may never occur and even when it does much of this will be history and will not have the media impact that this episode has courted.
At best it may cause the relevant authorities to review and change legislation but as someone alluded to they do not have the finances or staff. Furthermore we may have left the EU by then which might also impact on this resolution of this tragedy.
Future legal jurisprudence has many elements which need to come together to resolve what happened. It may never occur and even when it does much of this will be history and will not have the media impact that this episode has courted.
At best it may cause the relevant authorities to review and change legislation but as someone alluded to they do not have the finances or staff. Furthermore we may have left the EU by then which might also impact on this resolution of this tragedy.
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Ms Fay Keeley is a chartered accountant who is more than likely employed to focus on providing accurate records of all financial transactions for an individual or business. Thus I would think she is in the employ of the McKay's in some way, this type of accountant is more likely to be found employed in a more commercial capacity so the chances are she is a 'name' that is attached to McKay assets.
Ms Fay Keeley has connections to Nottingham Forest Football Academy Limited which puts her in the ideal position to be linked to Willie McKay, it is known that the McKay's have fingers in most football teams in the middle of the UK.
The Malibu in question is highly likely to be a McKay asset, the McKay's have previously owned a Navajo G-EEJE that Dave Henderson used to fly, chances are the C421 G-BBUJ was operated for the McKay's as that was flown by Henderson prior to it's accident in Portimao. A Beech King Air was also mentioned in passing as being a McKay aircraft.
I would also think N315P Cessna 310 is somewhere connected in the Cool Flourish / McKay links? G-EEJE / G-ILTS / N315P all carry the same colourscheme & whilst this might be the colours of PETER HENRY JOHNSON who operated a company called PRIVATE FLIGHT LIMITED it is well known that Dave Henderson was one of the Private Flight designated pilots.
Ms Fay Keeley has connections to Nottingham Forest Football Academy Limited which puts her in the ideal position to be linked to Willie McKay, it is known that the McKay's have fingers in most football teams in the middle of the UK.
The Malibu in question is highly likely to be a McKay asset, the McKay's have previously owned a Navajo G-EEJE that Dave Henderson used to fly, chances are the C421 G-BBUJ was operated for the McKay's as that was flown by Henderson prior to it's accident in Portimao. A Beech King Air was also mentioned in passing as being a McKay aircraft.
I would also think N315P Cessna 310 is somewhere connected in the Cool Flourish / McKay links? G-EEJE / G-ILTS / N315P all carry the same colourscheme & whilst this might be the colours of PETER HENRY JOHNSON who operated a company called PRIVATE FLIGHT LIMITED it is well known that Dave Henderson was one of the Private Flight designated pilots.
I don’t know who the beneficial owner of Cool Flourish is, and my lawyer has asked me to point out that I accept entirely the statement of Willie McKay that he is is not the owner, but if he had have been the owner he will never be able to admit it.
I just read this as a statement from McKay in the Press.
"Cardiff had originally proposed paying for a commercial flight for Sala but McKay said: 'When you spend €17m on a footballer, you don't put him on an EasyJet flight.' "
Is this guy for real?
I guess you rather put him in a SEP, with a PPL Pilot who is a plumber. McKay does not come out of this very well. Sala was in his care, until he was supposed to join up with Cardiff.
"Cardiff had originally proposed paying for a commercial flight for Sala but McKay said: 'When you spend €17m on a footballer, you don't put him on an EasyJet flight.' "
Is this guy for real?
I guess you rather put him in a SEP, with a PPL Pilot who is a plumber. McKay does not come out of this very well. Sala was in his care, until he was supposed to join up with Cardiff.
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I just read this as a statement from McKay in the Press.
"Cardiff had originally proposed paying for a commercial flight for Sala but McKay said: 'When you spend €17m on a footballer, you don't put him on an EasyJet flight.' "
Is this guy for real?
I guess you rather put him in a SEP, with a PPL Pilot who is a plumber. McKay does not come out of this very well. Sala was in his care, until he was supposed to join up with Cardiff.
"Cardiff had originally proposed paying for a commercial flight for Sala but McKay said: 'When you spend €17m on a footballer, you don't put him on an EasyJet flight.' "
Is this guy for real?
I guess you rather put him in a SEP, with a PPL Pilot who is a plumber. McKay does not come out of this very well. Sala was in his care, until he was supposed to join up with Cardiff.
'We do not say 'we are like a father to a son to our players'. No, if you had not been a footballer, these people would not be interested in you.
'In the end they are only interested in the money. What we all want a lot of, of course. That's why we like to work with just the clubs. No sentiment, we're just doing business.'
He had no interest in Sala’s welfare, it was just “business”
Last edited by runway30; 1st Feb 2019 at 03:27. Reason: Correction
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Published by Willie McKay.
"I said to Dave [Henderson], I need a plane. He said no problem. He paid the landing fees and fuel."
According to McKay, Henderson had to pay for Ibbotson's hotel in France, and for the airline fuel. Ibbotson, who had written online that he was a bit "rusty" before the flight, had reportedly told Henderson that he had lost his credit card.
Willie McKay is trying to walk this ridiculous tightrope because he can’t say that he owned the aircraft and he doesn’t want to say that he chartered it so I think he is trying to say that it was a private flight but without him being responsible for the aircraft? Of course Henderson handed over his bank card because Ibbotson had lost his if we just overlook that Ibbotson shouldn’t have been flying anyway.
"I said to Dave [Henderson], I need a plane. He said no problem. He paid the landing fees and fuel."
According to McKay, Henderson had to pay for Ibbotson's hotel in France, and for the airline fuel. Ibbotson, who had written online that he was a bit "rusty" before the flight, had reportedly told Henderson that he had lost his credit card.
Willie McKay is trying to walk this ridiculous tightrope because he can’t say that he owned the aircraft and he doesn’t want to say that he chartered it so I think he is trying to say that it was a private flight but without him being responsible for the aircraft? Of course Henderson handed over his bank card because Ibbotson had lost his if we just overlook that Ibbotson shouldn’t have been flying anyway.
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EASA has brought us many more rules, making things far more difficult (for those legally plying their trade) to make a living.
However, it seems to have left some large loopholes through lack of enforcement
However, it seems to have left some large loopholes through lack of enforcement
Where it gets complicated is if there are other innocent parties involved. Shoreham being a prime example or the tragedy where the police helicopter crashed on the pub.
Clearly this accident throws up all sorts of questions not least who engaged the pilot and what was known about his qualifications.
Clearly this accident throws up all sorts of questions not least who engaged the pilot and what was known about his qualifications.
The grey area appears to be flying an N reg outside the USA on an airmans certificate linked to a UK licence.
I recall busting the airspace around the Woomera rocket range in Australia flying an N reg Lance from Ayers Rock across the outback in 1989. On landing at Port Augusta I was asked to phone Adelaide who berated me,asked for my Aussie licence details (I had none at the time), and let me go because they had no jurisdiction. They were a bit shocked when asked for my point of departure and I replied Detroit.
However Australia did not allow N reg aircraft to be operated by residents for longer than a year.I had to change the the aircraft and my licences to comply.
That is to avoid US registration disguising aircraft owners behind shell companies using it as a flag of convenience.
Most of the current fleet of N reg UK based aircraft are rarely owned by US citizens.
The FAA certificate is clearly linked to the UK licence so surely the buck stops with the CAA?
I recall busting the airspace around the Woomera rocket range in Australia flying an N reg Lance from Ayers Rock across the outback in 1989. On landing at Port Augusta I was asked to phone Adelaide who berated me,asked for my Aussie licence details (I had none at the time), and let me go because they had no jurisdiction. They were a bit shocked when asked for my point of departure and I replied Detroit.
However Australia did not allow N reg aircraft to be operated by residents for longer than a year.I had to change the the aircraft and my licences to comply.
That is to avoid US registration disguising aircraft owners behind shell companies using it as a flag of convenience.
Most of the current fleet of N reg UK based aircraft are rarely owned by US citizens.
The FAA certificate is clearly linked to the UK licence so surely the buck stops with the CAA?
Last edited by Mike Flynn; 1st Feb 2019 at 13:34.
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A pilot who holds a VALID UK-issued PPL, and a Part 61.75 FAA-issued licence with current BFR is legal to fly an N-reg aircraft both inside and outside the USA in accordance with any limitations of the underlying UK licence, and those applicable to the FAA certificate.
hi
Which opens up the whole can of worms that allowed this flight to take place without an AOC.
I suggest the passenger thought he was on a regulated charter flight and not a micky mouse adventure flown by a person whose day job was a gas fitter.
It makes you question why anyone bothers to get a commercial licence when you can fly passengers across Europe with little more than a PPL.
This isn't a grey area.
A pilot who holds a VALID UK-issued PPL, and a Part 61.75 FAA-issued licence with current BFR is legal to fly an N-reg aircraft both inside and outside the USA in accordance with any limitations of the underlying UK licence, and those applicable to the FAA certificate.
A pilot who holds a VALID UK-issued PPL, and a Part 61.75 FAA-issued licence with current BFR is legal to fly an N-reg aircraft both inside and outside the USA in accordance with any limitations of the underlying UK licence, and those applicable to the FAA certificate.
I suggest the passenger thought he was on a regulated charter flight and not a micky mouse adventure flown by a person whose day job was a gas fitter.
It makes you question why anyone bothers to get a commercial licence when you can fly passengers across Europe with little more than a PPL.
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No (new) can of worms here. The pilot's licence, if it is as represented, would not have permitted him to operate a commercial flight here, or in the US. That in itself is enough to bring the conversation to a halt. Conversations about AOCs, Part 135 permission and the rest of it are entirely redundant since the pilot is fundamentally not qualified - possibly quite spectacularly so.
I think it does raise questions about the CAA and DGAC's ability to regulate GA flights within their territories - but we might want to be careful what we wish for there.
Nobody yet knows what the passenger understood about the flight, and that information may sadly be permanently unavailable. Speculation as to the views of the deceased is probably beyond even PPRUNE's wide-ranging chatter.
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This isn't a grey area.
A pilot who holds a VALID UK-issued PPL, and a Part 61.75 FAA-issued licence with current BFR is legal to fly an N-reg aircraft both inside and outside the USA in accordance with any limitations of the underlying UK licence, and those applicable to the FAA certificate.
A pilot who holds a VALID UK-issued PPL, and a Part 61.75 FAA-issued licence with current BFR is legal to fly an N-reg aircraft both inside and outside the USA in accordance with any limitations of the underlying UK licence, and those applicable to the FAA certificate.
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I had understood - mistakenly obviously - that the AAIB had said it was not going to carry out an underwater search . However I now see that it IS going to do so - and what's more the AAIB has defined an area of only 4 square nautical miles for what they call a "priority search". This search will be separate from the privately-funded search being carried out on behalf of the Sala family - although there will be liaison between the two searches.
The AAIB search is expected to start at "the end of this weekend" and will take "up to three days". They say "Side-scan sonar equipment will be used to try to locate the wreckage on the seabed. If the wreckage is found, a remotely operated vehicle (ROV) will be used to visually examine the wreckage".
The AAIB search is expected to start at "the end of this weekend" and will take "up to three days". They say "Side-scan sonar equipment will be used to try to locate the wreckage on the seabed. If the wreckage is found, a remotely operated vehicle (ROV) will be used to visually examine the wreckage".
On Facebook just now saw an advert for a Pilatus for dry hire, no mention of an AOC, G-reg. Renter to organise fuel and the pilot, insurance (which one) for the plane owner. Interesting blog also on the webpage.https://flexifly.co.uk/hire-agreement/ , I had to think about this thread, even though a turbine is better than piston. I happen to be a lapsed PPL, but many unsuspecting non-pilots may not know the additional differences between a charter and dry hire. Is it safe enough?
The second question is is it safe not having an AOC? Again this is personal opinion, but many years ago by coincidence I was employed to fly the C421 which has been mentioned in this thread, before it was owned by Cool Flourish, and flew it for about 300 hours. We didn’t have an AOC, but I had a CPL/IR, about 5000 hrs total experience, and a type rating on the aircraft (in the days before MEP class ratings for commercial pilots). Every flight with company passengers was flown on an IFR flight plan, I was not expected to operate the aircraft for longer than about 10 hours a day, and most importantly everyone who had use of the aircraft knew that instrument approach minimas would be rigidly adhered to, the aircraft would not be overloaded, and that I had the final say if a flight happened or not.
At the same time a certain large AOC operator, which I will not name, would regularity send it’s PA31s off in appalling weather, either scud running or blatantly flying in IMC on VFR flight plans, off airways, to avoid paying en route navigation charges. So to answer VanHorks question, there is no reason that a non AOC operation is inherently less safe than an AOC operation, at the end of the day safety doesn’t necessarily depend on the amount of paperwork generated by the flight ops inspector, but on the attitude of the person or persons at the controls of the aeroplane.
In a properly maintained Malibu, with a properly qualified and current pilot, this flight from Nantes to Cardiff should have been as safe and simple as any IFR flight in a pressurised single piston can be. Take off, climb IFR on airways to flight level 200 above the weather, cruise for an hour and a half and fly a simple ILS approach into Cardiff, probably with most of the flight coupled to the autopilot. The reason that didn’t happen was because it was organised and operated by a bunch of cowboys, the AAIB report will be longer and contain more eventual detail, but that’s the reason for this tragedy.
Last edited by excrab; 1st Feb 2019 at 18:05.
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patowalker
I fear that you are mis-interpreting that letter, which is relatively well known in air-law circles.
Your original 'grey area' relates to somebody operating an N-reg, with both a UK PPL, and a US part 61.75 license based on that UK licence. They are free to do that anywhere in the world.
The letter refers to a different situation - namely, a UK pilot flying an N-reg aircraft elsewhere EASA land, with his UK-issued EASA licence. No 61.75 piggyback licence. Here he is attempting to place reliance on FAR 61.63(1)(v)
The FAA opinion is that even an EASA licence has a country of issue (such as the UK), and that whilst this will allow such a licence to be used to fly an N-reg in the UK (in this example), it would not allow the pilot to fly the aircraft in another EASA European country. For that, he would need, either:
1) an FAA licence (61.75 or native); or
2) another EASA licence issued in the country in which he is now flying.
I hope this helps.
I fear that you are mis-interpreting that letter, which is relatively well known in air-law circles.
Your original 'grey area' relates to somebody operating an N-reg, with both a UK PPL, and a US part 61.75 license based on that UK licence. They are free to do that anywhere in the world.
The letter refers to a different situation - namely, a UK pilot flying an N-reg aircraft elsewhere EASA land, with his UK-issued EASA licence. No 61.75 piggyback licence. Here he is attempting to place reliance on FAR 61.63(1)(v)
The FAA opinion is that even an EASA licence has a country of issue (such as the UK), and that whilst this will allow such a licence to be used to fly an N-reg in the UK (in this example), it would not allow the pilot to fly the aircraft in another EASA European country. For that, he would need, either:
1) an FAA licence (61.75 or native); or
2) another EASA licence issued in the country in which he is now flying.
I hope this helps.
Last edited by 2Donkeys; 1st Feb 2019 at 18:28.