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Cardiff City Footballer Feared Missing after aircraft disappeared near Channel Island

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Cardiff City Footballer Feared Missing after aircraft disappeared near Channel Island

Old 28th Jan 2019, 16:23
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Latest from local French media:

In a press conference on Monday, Neil Warnock, the Cardiff City manager, mentioned Dave Ibbotson, the pilot who disappeared with Emiliano Sala: "I have flown with him, he was a fabulous pilot, so I do not understand what happened. "

In its edition of this Monday, Ouest-France has published some of the content of the flight plans filed last week. These documents reveal "the total unpreparedness" of the pilot, who had written 'completely fanciful indications' and was 'even mistaken in noting the registration of his aircraft'. Changed at the last minute, for 'reasons that remain unknown', the second flight plan reveals 'that David Ibbotson flew by sight, that is to say without any reference other than what he saw around him which is not much in these weather conditions and in any case, normally prohibited for this type of flying'. Finally, we learn that the 'private pilot license he had did not allow him to fly this type of aircraft'
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Old 28th Jan 2019, 16:39
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It is a pity that this "local French media" (Ouest-France) hides 80% of the article content unless you take out a paying subscription.
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Old 28th Jan 2019, 16:53
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We are dealing with media reports here so nothing is certain. However it is possible that the level of negligence passes the threshold into criminal acts. Responsibility for those criminal acts could include individuals/companies involved in making the arrangements if they knowingly hired a pilot without the necessary qualifications, or even worse, hired a pilot who would pretend to be someone else to use their qualifications. Note, I have said IF, because nothing is known for certain at this stage.

I have to say that I am absolutely astonished that the Cardiff Manager has admitted to being flown by the pilot. I’d like to know the circumstances of that flight.
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Old 28th Jan 2019, 16:55
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Yes, VFR cruising altitudes are the same as US (semicircular rule)
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Old 28th Jan 2019, 16:57
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The full article basically claims:

A local commercial pilot has said the conditions were definitely IMC on the night in question.and the pilot was only VFR rated
The pilot had an FAA licence with no type-rating for the aircraft used which was of a complex type..
There were mistakes in the flight plan - ie, wrong registration entered.
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Old 28th Jan 2019, 16:59
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Originally Posted by Pilot DAR
I nearly never click to accept cookies. Unless it's a website I really want to visit, and trust, seeing the "accept cookies" inset will usually cause me to leave the website. As I believe they track everything else, hopefully they also track the number of people who get to the first page, then choose to not visit further into their website! Perhaps they'll realize that some people would like to preserve their privacy to at least some degree.



Ah, no. You can't track me when I ride my bicycle, you can't track me when I drive my car, so why would I allow you to track me when I fly my plane? I don't accept that cookie either!

If I am willing to be tracked, I'll turn on my SPOT, my transponder, file a flight plan, and tell people where I'm going - sometimes, I won't!
and when you go missing, no-one will have a clue where you are. the above case in point.
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Old 28th Jan 2019, 16:59
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Originally Posted by Luc Lion
A French newspaper, Ouest-France, claims to have had access to the flight plan and that is was a VFR flight plan.
https://www.ouest-france.fr/sport/fo...on-vol-6198438
Hence the 5000 ft cruise altitude.
Appaling
Is night VFR permitted in France now?
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Old 28th Jan 2019, 17:16
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Tomnod

Originally Posted by Downwind Lander
Does anyone know what happened to Tomnod, the people who acquired satellite images and asked the community to examine them for tell tale signs of anything useful? (No sign at tomnod.com)
I'm just preparing a note from the Tomnod forum...

There is and has been interest in this incident, but not surprisingly no requests for the service...
Several people have come onto the forum and suggested something be done and they have been directed to the
appropriate channels... but there are limits to the possibilities...

I'm going to bring a posting over with permission from that site moderator...

=====
Post by the Tomnod Forum Moderator. 2019/01/26 14/29
(Reposted here with their permission.)
_____
Imaging costs are pretty expensive, plus it requires a re-tasking of where to image.
The way things have been explained before, satellites continuously image in long strips and send those when it “phones home”. These are pre-set routes over areas, or per paid customers’ needs.
HOWEVER, remember last year when Melissa (Staff) told us that the satellites typically do NOT do pre-set routes over bodies of water, because water is NOT what customers usually want.
So, sometimes, like Hurricane Maria, Tomnod must REQUEST a re-tasking and they get it in during short pauses in other tasking. This request has a cost, which DG must absorb (now Maxar). Then, they still must process the strips, stitch them together and make them as if bent around a globe shape, and cut out most of the excess water scenes, etc-- all of which costs money for Staff to do, They also must make sure they have pre images in the archives (or the campaign could be useless for Nodders).
All of these tidbits go into their review of requests, plus what ground / water / air authorities say about the viability of a campaign— plus their own knowledge of what works. With no intention of being mean, I repeat that the chances of finding a private plane that crashed over // into water (even a small area) where local authorities have called off SAR, is so slim.
It’s sad, like when the sub went missing. It’s tough to try to explain why DG might not be able to do what we want, even though everyone feels the pain of friends, family, loved ones.
_____

Check out the Platform. Come join us in the Forum!
Platform: www dot tomnod dot com
Forum: forum dot tomnod dot com
Forum topic: forum dot tomnod dot com/t/plane-crash-soccer-player-emiliano-sala/5907

=====

That is what the situation is... Timing is a lot of the problem... and we can't see underwater or through heavy clouds
I think a lot of that has been done and done well in the first part of the field search.
there are more comments in the forums there... in that 5907 thread above.
I see that I'm not allowed active links yet... OK... Just use cut and paste it seems... works. correct for the dots. old school.
Several of us are watching here... a few feel that they are not likely to sign in... I told them it wasn't a closed board, for pilots,
I got to do it because I used to be... eyes degraded so no more PIC.... Also long time SAR so I have a bit of insight into things... I will be back.
Will look for visitors over there... last two of my user name will hint at who I am there... ha.
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Old 28th Jan 2019, 17:25
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Originally Posted by Mach Tuck


Is night VFR permitted in France now?
of course it is . Do it all time.
as to the 5000ft , on a VFR flight plan you do not have to file the RFL, just write VFR and you can select the alt yourself, 5000 ft . Now above Jersey is class D , permeable to VFR with transponder , but it is Class A above FL80 . There it is IFR only.
I am still puzzled buy the flight plan specially since the Nantes airport spoke person clearly said on the first day the plan was IFR. but OK we'll soon see who is right.
If indeed he filed and flew VFR on that wx at night then it is truly unbelievable ! .
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Old 28th Jan 2019, 17:33
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Originally Posted by Pilot DAR
Ah, no. You can't track me when I ride my bicycle, you can't track me when I drive my car, so why would I allow you to track me when I fly my plane? I don't accept that cookie either!

If I am willing to be tracked, I'll turn on my SPOT, my transponder, file a flight plan, and tell people where I'm going - sometimes, I won't!
Yeah, right. Conspicuity is for wimps.
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Old 28th Jan 2019, 17:37
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Correct me if I am wrong, but complex does not immediately in itself require a type rating? I fly an N Registered E400 which is a very similar aircraft in terms of capabilities, performance etc to a non turbine PA46...and there is no type rating required on mine. I have also on two occasions used flight sharing sites and accepted passengers when I was flying longer international legs and was more than happy to have some company en route. (Dons tin hat...) I do not have any commercial qualifications, nor do I aspire to. Simply a PPL & IR.
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Old 28th Jan 2019, 17:52
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I think now is a moment to stop speculating, keep quiet and leave some time to the investigators. The public surfaced facts are already enough to hold breath.
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Old 28th Jan 2019, 17:56
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Originally Posted by runway30
I have to say that I am absolutely astonished that the Cardiff Manager has admitted to being flown by the pilot. I’d like to know the circumstances of that flight.
I think that would be interesting too. If for example those previous trips were CAVOK and hassle free, there’d be no warning flags.
However in the same context as Sala, why would the team manager know any more info regarding the legal admin details and qualifications of a chartered aircraft than his players? I think it highly likely he’d go to a associate/company with experience of ‘charters’ to arrange a suitable flight, and assume he was being provided with a safe/legal/expeditious/cost effective trip. We’ve seen in the thread from a customer of what may be similar flights, that that assumption is an easy step to take.
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Old 28th Jan 2019, 18:03
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The exact wording used by Mr Warnock in his conference which isn't quite as definitive as reported by French media:

'.......Warnock made exactly the same journey as Sala when he returned from watching the striker play for Nantes. “I’d been on a couple of planes like that, but I think the ones I went on might have had two engines,” he said. “But I do think I had that pilot [Ibbotson], who I thought was a fabulous pilot. I just can’t comprehend it.....”
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Old 28th Jan 2019, 18:09
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Human factor

Not sure what to make of this. There’s a big play on weather around the islands at the time of flight. He asked for a decent from 5000 to 2000. Now correct me if I’m wrong. Not being as experienced as some of you guys. Surely a bad decision to start. But a route of that length would have been in the upper levels? So would have been clear of most icing on route.
Also. There was no mayday made. This indicates something more than icing to me. Not to get a call out? Sorry if I’m sounding dim on this. I’m sure a correction will come shortly. Also was he adequately rated for the flight?
responses welcom.
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Old 28th Jan 2019, 18:10
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and when you go missing, no-one will have a clue where you are.
I choose to always have someone (a responsible person, by the legal definition) know where I am, even in my plane. The difference is that I choose who knows where I am, not everyone knows where I am. When I select altitude on the Transponder, and having told my family, everyone who needs to know where I am, does. I don't like the idea that random computer users could track my private whereabouts.

I do agree though, that that is a privilege of private flying. Once the flight is in any way compensated, the passenger should be entitled to suitable tracking, as they have purchased a transportation service, with expectations of public assistance, should it be needed. The public emergency services (whom we pay by taxes) should be able to accomplish their role with reasonable efficiency, meaning more rescue than search. If you've kept your location private even to emergency services, you have surrendered efficient (or even any) rescue. A pilot has no right to put a passenger in that situation.
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Old 28th Jan 2019, 18:28
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Originally Posted by Pilot DAR
I choose to always have someone (a responsible person, by the legal definition) know where I am, even in my plane. The difference is that I choose who knows where I am, not everyone knows where I am. When I select altitude on the Transponder, and having told my family, everyone who needs to know where I am, does. I don't like the idea that random computer users could track my private whereabouts.

I do agree though, that that is a privilege of private flying. Once the flight is in any way compensated, the passenger should be entitled to suitable tracking, as they have purchased a transportation service, with expectations of public assistance, should it be needed. The public emergency services (whom we pay by taxes) should be able to accomplish their role with reasonable efficiency, meaning more rescue than search. If you've kept your location private even to emergency services, you have surrendered efficient (or even any) rescue. A pilot has no right to put a passenger in that situation.
That's a good summary of probably how a great deal of us feel about these Tracking Sites, etc.

But, how do you square that away with maintaning Electronic Conspicuity at all times to avoid risk of collision?

When I go sailing solo - yes, of course I give a loved one a rough ETA - "If I'm not alongside and texting you by 2200 hrs then put the balloon up" but flying - I think we need to inhabit the space we fly in for all to see - electronically - as far as we can with at least Mode S, and ADS-B, etc, etc. Why wouldn't we? Apart from cost - which I know is bloody expensive, but what price...?

How do you justify this Electronic Silence - unless you're thouroughly back country?

Not having a go - genuinely interested.
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Old 28th Jan 2019, 18:38
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I do wonder on what basis the Cardiff City Manager can assess DI as a fabulous pilot.

What utter dribble some people speak.
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Old 28th Jan 2019, 18:41
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Originally Posted by MPN11
I do wonder on what basis the Cardiff City Manager can assess DI as a fabulous pilot.

What utter dribble some people speak.
Cheap is what he means........
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Old 28th Jan 2019, 18:42
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Originally Posted by brentford77
Correct me if I am wrong, but complex does not immediately in itself require a type rating? I fly an N Registered E400 which is a very similar aircraft in terms of capabilities, performance etc to a non turbine PA46...and there is no type rating required on mine. I have also on two occasions used flight sharing sites and accepted passengers when I was flying longer international legs and was more than happy to have some company en route. (Dons tin hat...) I do not have any commercial qualifications, nor do I aspire to. Simply a PPL & IR.
The PA46 310P is on the EASA list as requiring a specific type rating.
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