Cardiff City Footballer Feared Missing after aircraft disappeared near Channel Island
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The picture of N531EA with names under the windows is old, the names were removed a while back & it now has Channel Jets on the fuselage.
The Chartered reference is supposition as the aircraft is owned by Jason Bannister & Mark Farmer who operate JBMF Air which operates as an Air Charter company.
Jason Bannister does ( I believe) have an investment in Burnley FC so there is possibly a loose connection to the McKay's & Football.
I am now losing the thread because I am connected to Aviation, previously connected to Football & previously rubbed shoulders with a few of the names in this melee so I am advised to sit back & await the conclusions.
The Chartered reference is supposition as the aircraft is owned by Jason Bannister & Mark Farmer who operate JBMF Air which operates as an Air Charter company.
Jason Bannister does ( I believe) have an investment in Burnley FC so there is possibly a loose connection to the McKay's & Football.
I am now losing the thread because I am connected to Aviation, previously connected to Football & previously rubbed shoulders with a few of the names in this melee so I am advised to sit back & await the conclusions.
Last edited by TRUTHSEEKER1; 27th Jan 2019 at 15:36.
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Well they make their intentions clear
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Aircraft Rental Leasing And Charter Services in Swindon View others nearbyAdd review
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So, the Sala Eclipse 500 was procured through Channel Jets then - https://www.channeljets.com/private-charter-service/
Problem is, where Channel Jets have a Guernsey based 2-REG operation (do they have a Guernsey AOC already?) what were they doing using an N-Reg aircraft (N531EA) on their AOC (assuming they have a valid Guernsey AOC). Does the Guernsey register allow for the substitution of any old privately-owned aircraft on any register onto one of their 2-REG AOC operations?
Problem is, where Channel Jets have a Guernsey based 2-REG operation (do they have a Guernsey AOC already?) what were they doing using an N-Reg aircraft (N531EA) on their AOC (assuming they have a valid Guernsey AOC). Does the Guernsey register allow for the substitution of any old privately-owned aircraft on any register onto one of their 2-REG AOC operations?
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So, the Sala Eclipse 500 was procured through Channel Jets then - https://www.channeljets.com/private-charter-service/
Problem is, where Channel Jets have a Guernsey based 2-REG operation (do they have a Guernsey AOC already?) what were they doing using an N-Reg aircraft (N531EA) on their AOC (assuming they have a valid Guernsey AOC). Does the Guernsey register allow for the substitution of any old privately-owned aircraft on any register onto one of their 2-REG AOC operations?
Problem is, where Channel Jets have a Guernsey based 2-REG operation (do they have a Guernsey AOC already?) what were they doing using an N-Reg aircraft (N531EA) on their AOC (assuming they have a valid Guernsey AOC). Does the Guernsey register allow for the substitution of any old privately-owned aircraft on any register onto one of their 2-REG AOC operations?
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However, unless someone can confirm the Guernsey rules on this, I seriously doubt that N-Reg Eclipse coud have been legitimately chartered to Sala (or his agent), even if the 'Operator' for that trip has a valid AOC, which it appears they do. Are Mark Farmer and Jason Bannister (supposed owners of N531EA) therefore leasing their Eclipse to Channel Jets, or was this a one-off rental?
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Well now you can throw away your AOCs, you don’t need them any more.
According to Forbes.
The scenario is this: An important client of your company calls and says "We have ridden on your jet before, and now we urgently have to get to a team out to a site where there has been an accident, and we would like to use your aircraft to get us there tonight instead of waiting for the airlines; we shall pay for the flight, can we use your jet and go?"
Of course you want to help out a valuable client that is in dire need, especially as you feel that it will further cement your relationship with them, but after a call to your legal department you are now unsure whether you can agree to your clients urgent request.
Your ‘legal eagles’ are happy about the liability issues being ‘no-problem.’ This is because you carry more insurance than you really need because of the regularity in which clients and other non-employees are flown on your aircraft. Also even though the trip will be at the request of another, your company will be in complete operational control of the aircraft and therefore it is the same as you and your own people being on board. The issue that bothers your legal team is the assertion by the client that ‘we (he) will pay for the flight.’ So what is the issue of payment that they are citing here? Well, you operate your aircraft under cfr 14, FAR part 91 operating rules. You do not have an Air Operators Certificate (AOC) under part 135 and therefore you cannot charge the client for the flight as you will be breaking the law.
Well actually ‘Au contraire mon amis’, because you can legally charge for the use of your aircraft by another person or entity as long as you write a very simple ‘Time Sharing Agreement’ and then refer to the following provisions in the Code of Federal Regulations (cfr) Title 14: Aeronautics and Space, Part 91 - General Operating Flight Rules, Subpart F - Large and Turbine Powered Multiengine Airplanes and Fractional Ownership Program Aircraft, Rule Number 501, sub-paragraph C (1), which states:
A time sharing agreement means an arrangement whereby a person leases his airplane with flight crew to another person, and no charge is made for the flights conducted under that arrangement other than those specified in paragraph (d) of this section.... Which further states ....(d) The following may be charged, as expenses of a specific flight, for transportation as authorized by paragraphs (b) (3) and (7) and (c)(1) of this section:
(1) Fuel, oil, lubricants, and other additives.
(2) Travel expenses of the crew, including food, lodging, and ground transportation.
(3) Hangar and tie-down costs away from the aircraft's base of operation.
(4) Insurance obtained for the specific flight.
(5) Landing fees, airport taxes, and similar assessments.
(6) Customs, foreign permit, and similar fees directly related to the flight.
(7) In flight food and beverages.
(8) Passenger ground transportation.
(9) Flight planning and weather contract services.
(10) An additional charge equal to 100 percent of the expenses listed in paragraph (d)(1) of this section.
Now you know for certain and you can make the happy call to your client.
According to Forbes.
The scenario is this: An important client of your company calls and says "We have ridden on your jet before, and now we urgently have to get to a team out to a site where there has been an accident, and we would like to use your aircraft to get us there tonight instead of waiting for the airlines; we shall pay for the flight, can we use your jet and go?"
Of course you want to help out a valuable client that is in dire need, especially as you feel that it will further cement your relationship with them, but after a call to your legal department you are now unsure whether you can agree to your clients urgent request.
Your ‘legal eagles’ are happy about the liability issues being ‘no-problem.’ This is because you carry more insurance than you really need because of the regularity in which clients and other non-employees are flown on your aircraft. Also even though the trip will be at the request of another, your company will be in complete operational control of the aircraft and therefore it is the same as you and your own people being on board. The issue that bothers your legal team is the assertion by the client that ‘we (he) will pay for the flight.’ So what is the issue of payment that they are citing here? Well, you operate your aircraft under cfr 14, FAR part 91 operating rules. You do not have an Air Operators Certificate (AOC) under part 135 and therefore you cannot charge the client for the flight as you will be breaking the law.
Well actually ‘Au contraire mon amis’, because you can legally charge for the use of your aircraft by another person or entity as long as you write a very simple ‘Time Sharing Agreement’ and then refer to the following provisions in the Code of Federal Regulations (cfr) Title 14: Aeronautics and Space, Part 91 - General Operating Flight Rules, Subpart F - Large and Turbine Powered Multiengine Airplanes and Fractional Ownership Program Aircraft, Rule Number 501, sub-paragraph C (1), which states:
A time sharing agreement means an arrangement whereby a person leases his airplane with flight crew to another person, and no charge is made for the flights conducted under that arrangement other than those specified in paragraph (d) of this section.... Which further states ....(d) The following may be charged, as expenses of a specific flight, for transportation as authorized by paragraphs (b) (3) and (7) and (c)(1) of this section:
(1) Fuel, oil, lubricants, and other additives.
(2) Travel expenses of the crew, including food, lodging, and ground transportation.
(3) Hangar and tie-down costs away from the aircraft's base of operation.
(4) Insurance obtained for the specific flight.
(5) Landing fees, airport taxes, and similar assessments.
(6) Customs, foreign permit, and similar fees directly related to the flight.
(7) In flight food and beverages.
(8) Passenger ground transportation.
(9) Flight planning and weather contract services.
(10) An additional charge equal to 100 percent of the expenses listed in paragraph (d)(1) of this section.
Now you know for certain and you can make the happy call to your client.
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So, the Sala Eclipse 500 was procured through Channel Jets then - https://www.channeljets.com/private-charter-service/
Problem is, where Channel Jets have a Guernsey based 2-REG operation (do they have a Guernsey AOC already?) what were they doing using an N-Reg aircraft (N531EA) on their AOC (assuming they have a valid Guernsey AOC). Does the Guernsey register allow for the substitution of any old privately-owned aircraft on any register onto one of their 2-REG AOC operations?
Problem is, where Channel Jets have a Guernsey based 2-REG operation (do they have a Guernsey AOC already?) what were they doing using an N-Reg aircraft (N531EA) on their AOC (assuming they have a valid Guernsey AOC). Does the Guernsey register allow for the substitution of any old privately-owned aircraft on any register onto one of their 2-REG AOC operations?
.
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Channel Jets got their Guernsey AOC last summer (the sixth AOC issued by the Guernsey authorities) so they can legitimately charter out a 2-REG registered Eclipse 500. However, it is doubtful that they could charter out a borrowed/substitute N-registered Eclipse off the back of their Guernsey AOC. If it transpires that they can just substitute any old FAA or EASA-registered aircraft onto the AOC, then that is very enlightening. In a post-Brexit world, I can see every UK AOC-holder in the country swapping over to the Guernsey register so they have this extraordinary flexibility - assuming they get over the Part-TCO approval issues allowing them to be able to fly in any UK/EU jurisdiction thereafter.
However, unless someone can confirm the Guernsey rules on this, I seriously doubt that N-Reg Eclipse coud have been legitimately chartered to Sala (or his agent), even if the 'Operator' for that trip has a valid AOC, which it appears they do. Are Mark Farmer and Jason Bannister (supposed owners of N531EA) therefore leasing their Eclipse to Channel Jets, or was this a one-off rental?
With
Having Channel Jets name & logo emblazoned on the fuselage of N531EA & N843TE I would guess that they aren't being used as One Off Charters in the true sense of the word, however each different client is a ' one off ' in legal terms.
[QUOTE=BigFrank;10371929]Would you say that the Cork Accident followed the above trope?
I only said that they are put in place, I didn't opine as to whether they are followed by all but professional pilots.
I only said that they are put in place, I didn't opine as to whether they are followed by all but professional pilots.
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There's no reason why it wouldn't be possible to read the memory of a Garmin nav system, a mobile phone or any other electronic system - salt water immersion wouldn't be an issue.
Sala's agent Mark McKay, son of Willie Mcay
Mark McKay was an ‘intermediary’. According to the Telegraph agent’s fees are £2.5M, presumably split between N’Diaye and McKay.
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My attempt at an air crash investigation:
Without an IFR rating, his only option was to go for it with Night VFR, flying much lower than the safer flight levels many have already suggested.
When things got really tricky - poor visibility, iced-up controls responding heavily, instruments behaving strangely - he preferred to go down looking for warmer air than up into IMC. Not only was he not trained for IMC, but ATC would be aware that he was entering IMC and intervene.
Communicate/Conserve/Comply was not an option, because ATC would no doubt divert him to a nearby airfield. Sala would miss his first training session and bring the world's press, the CAA and his controllers down on him like a ton of bricks. Under pressure, he decided to press on at 2300ft - fly low, get home. But there was cloud all the way down.
I am not IFR rated and have been caught in IMC twice. It is disorientating, and it tends to make you rely heavily on the few instruments that you have at your disposal.
In this case it is possible that icing blocked the static port, with disastrous consequences, affecting the altimeter and the VSI. This from Wikipedia:
"One of the most common causes of a blocked static port is airframe icing. A blocked static port will cause the altimeter to freeze at a constant value, the altitude at which the static port became blocked. The vertical speed indicator will read zero and will not change at all, even if vertical speed increases or decreases."
When descending from 5000 feet to 2300 feet, with poor visibility, the above phenomena could result in a quick descent to sea level, with the pilot thinking he's still on level flight.
The only way to prove this would be if they find the wreck with flaps up and the altimeter reading 5000ft. Otherwise it's just speculation.
Without an IFR rating, his only option was to go for it with Night VFR, flying much lower than the safer flight levels many have already suggested.
When things got really tricky - poor visibility, iced-up controls responding heavily, instruments behaving strangely - he preferred to go down looking for warmer air than up into IMC. Not only was he not trained for IMC, but ATC would be aware that he was entering IMC and intervene.
Communicate/Conserve/Comply was not an option, because ATC would no doubt divert him to a nearby airfield. Sala would miss his first training session and bring the world's press, the CAA and his controllers down on him like a ton of bricks. Under pressure, he decided to press on at 2300ft - fly low, get home. But there was cloud all the way down.
I am not IFR rated and have been caught in IMC twice. It is disorientating, and it tends to make you rely heavily on the few instruments that you have at your disposal.
In this case it is possible that icing blocked the static port, with disastrous consequences, affecting the altimeter and the VSI. This from Wikipedia:
"One of the most common causes of a blocked static port is airframe icing. A blocked static port will cause the altimeter to freeze at a constant value, the altitude at which the static port became blocked. The vertical speed indicator will read zero and will not change at all, even if vertical speed increases or decreases."
When descending from 5000 feet to 2300 feet, with poor visibility, the above phenomena could result in a quick descent to sea level, with the pilot thinking he's still on level flight.
The only way to prove this would be if they find the wreck with flaps up and the altimeter reading 5000ft. Otherwise it's just speculation.
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Even if the aircraft should be found, the chances of determining the reason for the accident are not good. Especially if it was either related to icing or lack of instrument flying skills in difficult conditions. Engine problems, which can be seen by analysing the wreckage, would probably have been communicated by the pilot who was in radio contact with ATC.
dalgetty , might be best to steer clear of air crash investigation!
With apologies, the quantity of errors and assumptions in your post are too numerous to list.
I will, though, do the first one. There is no such thing as an IFR rating, it's simply an IR.
Sorry!
With apologies, the quantity of errors and assumptions in your post are too numerous to list.
I will, though, do the first one. There is no such thing as an IFR rating, it's simply an IR.
Sorry!
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I have a PPL but do not have either Night or IMC ratings. Also I have never been a PAX in a SEA or twin during darkness. So please be gentle with this question!
Normally during night flying, are the lights of towns/cities of any assistance other than the navigation? In other words do these lights give any visual reference to help situational awareness so as to reduce the total reliance on the AI?
Reason I ask, is that from departure Nantes, there would have been the lights of villages and towns towards Rennes and then similar to the coast. Then after Guernsey, just darkness ahead. (just like for me being mid-ocean at sea) Rain, sleet, snow swirling across the windscreen; trying to ignore it and concentrate on the AI....... I wonder if Sala's fear was the vibration of a iced up prop?
Clive
Normally during night flying, are the lights of towns/cities of any assistance other than the navigation? In other words do these lights give any visual reference to help situational awareness so as to reduce the total reliance on the AI?
Reason I ask, is that from departure Nantes, there would have been the lights of villages and towns towards Rennes and then similar to the coast. Then after Guernsey, just darkness ahead. (just like for me being mid-ocean at sea) Rain, sleet, snow swirling across the windscreen; trying to ignore it and concentrate on the AI....... I wonder if Sala's fear was the vibration of a iced up prop?
Clive
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I understand what you mean that the left engine has the same probability of the right engine as quitting, but unless you didn't put enough go juice in the plane, you are essentially doubling down on your odds of getting to the destination with one engine still working.
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I have a PPL but do not have either Night or IMC ratings. Also I have never been a PAX in a SEA or twin during darkness. So please be gentle with this question!
Normally during night flying, are the lights of towns/cities of any assistance other than the navigation? In other words do these lights give any visual reference to help situational awareness so as to reduce the total reliance on the AI?
Reason I ask, is that from departure Nantes, there would have been the lights of villages and towns towards Rennes and then similar to the coast. Then after Guernsey, just darkness ahead. (just like for me being mid-ocean at sea) Rain, sleet, snow swirling across the windscreen; trying to ignore it and concentrate on the AI....... I wonder if Sala's fear was the vibration of a iced up prop?
Clive
Normally during night flying, are the lights of towns/cities of any assistance other than the navigation? In other words do these lights give any visual reference to help situational awareness so as to reduce the total reliance on the AI?
Reason I ask, is that from departure Nantes, there would have been the lights of villages and towns towards Rennes and then similar to the coast. Then after Guernsey, just darkness ahead. (just like for me being mid-ocean at sea) Rain, sleet, snow swirling across the windscreen; trying to ignore it and concentrate on the AI....... I wonder if Sala's fear was the vibration of a iced up prop?
Clive
Night flight is instrument flight. However in the UK we have a night and IMC ratings. The latter is sold with the label " will get you out of trouble, my opinion is " it will get you into trouble". My long held personal view is that both are introductions to instrument flight. They are there only to be used in exceptional circumstances, such as when a VFR flight planned to start and end in day time stray into night time and when a climb and descent above cloud cover has become necessary. To me VFR means day, clear of cloud and in sight of ground.
In this instance it may well be that the pilot in question may have held a valid IR endorsement to his FAA airman`s certificate, this may have given him the privilege of IR flight over French airspace, but not UK controlled airspace. I think it has been previously commented that he may have been transiting the Channel Islands airspace on a special VFR clearance and had planned to enter UK airspace VFR. It is therefore possible that having encountered IMC he may have decided to commence a descent to remain clear of cloud in good time before entering UK airspace. I would imagine he would have been using the A/P and from memory I do believe this particular type of aircraft is equipped with a altitude pre-select function. It is possible therefore to speculate that either this failed causing a runaway elevator pitch trim or that the ice build up over the elevator and its trim tab jammed from the ice accumulation during the descent not permitting the A/P to recover at the selected altitude and to cause it to continue its descent.
Only hard and long experience gained in working as a pilot may equip a pilot to know his own and his aircraft`s performance and limitations and the intricacies of the atmosphere within which he and his passengers are to be safely carried from point A to Point B. It is only then that one appreciates the value of humility.
A great book I have always suggested to all those who have an interest in aviation is Ernest Gann`s book Fate is the Hunter. Many say it is the finest book on the subject. I tend to agree.
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My attempt at an air crash investigation:
Without an IFR rating, his only option was to go for it with Night VFR, flying much lower than the safer flight levels many have already suggested.
When things got really tricky - poor visibility, iced-up controls responding heavily, instruments behaving strangely - he preferred to go down looking for warmer air than up into IMC. Not only was he not trained for IMC, but ATC would be aware that he was entering IMC and intervene.
Communicate/Conserve/Comply was not an option, because ATC would no doubt divert him to a nearby airfield. Sala would miss his first training session and bring the world's press, the CAA and his controllers down on him like a ton of bricks. Under pressure, he decided to press on at 2300ft - fly low, get home. But there was cloud all the way down.
I am not IFR rated and have been caught in IMC twice. It is disorientating, and it tends to make you rely heavily on the few instruments that you have at your disposal.
In this case it is possible that icing blocked the static port, with disastrous consequences, affecting the altimeter and the VSI. This from Wikipedia:
"One of the most common causes of a blocked static port is airframe icing. A blocked static port will cause the altimeter to freeze at a constant value, the altitude at which the static port became blocked. The vertical speed indicator will read zero and will not change at all, even if vertical speed increases or decreases."
When descending from 5000 feet to 2300 feet, with poor visibility, the above phenomena could result in a quick descent to sea level, with the pilot thinking he's still on level flight.
The only way to prove this would be if they find the wreck with flaps up and the altimeter reading 5000ft. Otherwise it's just speculation.
Without an IFR rating, his only option was to go for it with Night VFR, flying much lower than the safer flight levels many have already suggested.
When things got really tricky - poor visibility, iced-up controls responding heavily, instruments behaving strangely - he preferred to go down looking for warmer air than up into IMC. Not only was he not trained for IMC, but ATC would be aware that he was entering IMC and intervene.
Communicate/Conserve/Comply was not an option, because ATC would no doubt divert him to a nearby airfield. Sala would miss his first training session and bring the world's press, the CAA and his controllers down on him like a ton of bricks. Under pressure, he decided to press on at 2300ft - fly low, get home. But there was cloud all the way down.
I am not IFR rated and have been caught in IMC twice. It is disorientating, and it tends to make you rely heavily on the few instruments that you have at your disposal.
In this case it is possible that icing blocked the static port, with disastrous consequences, affecting the altimeter and the VSI. This from Wikipedia:
"One of the most common causes of a blocked static port is airframe icing. A blocked static port will cause the altimeter to freeze at a constant value, the altitude at which the static port became blocked. The vertical speed indicator will read zero and will not change at all, even if vertical speed increases or decreases."
When descending from 5000 feet to 2300 feet, with poor visibility, the above phenomena could result in a quick descent to sea level, with the pilot thinking he's still on level flight.
The only way to prove this would be if they find the wreck with flaps up and the altimeter reading 5000ft. Otherwise it's just speculation.