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Cardiff City Footballer Feared Missing after aircraft disappeared near Channel Island

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Cardiff City Footballer Feared Missing after aircraft disappeared near Channel Island

Old 27th Jan 2019, 14:01
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Originally Posted by malabo
Flight should have been a doddle. Straight line 200nm, little more than an hour, low level. Easy altitude, lots of turn around or enroute alternates. We all fly in light icing, moderate needs some equipment, heavy you don’t fly in. Lots of beef about single engine -who cares, it is only a statistical consideration. Lots of Malibu and other single-engine fly night IFR all over, if the fan quits you’re a deadman. In a twin if the engine quits then you play the stats against the coincidence of the second one quitting, and there is the same probability it will quit. Over water doesn’t matter, outcome won’t be good but chances are a little better in daylight. Anyway, no indication of engine problems have surfaced, so for now it is simply a platform for the “only twins should be allowed to fly” chestbeaters. Nothing on pilot qualification or experience to indicate a boy was sent out to do a man’s (or woman’s) job. FAA PPL is an easy FLV for an EASA licenced pilot, and the licence (UK) it is based on could be up to an ATPL. All speculation.
One thing that we take for granted in all our aircraft these days is satellite tracking, usually 2.5 minute intervals. Unlimited tracking for a year costs less than an hour of fuel a year. Is this unheard of in EASAland? Seems Stone Age to be depending on radar pings in the 21st century. Always wonder if these unsuccessful searches would have been more successful if they could focus the assets on a few square miles.
I understand what you mean that the left engine has the same probability of the right engine as quitting, but unless you didn't put enough go juice in the plane, you are essentially doubling down on your odds of getting to the destination with one engine still working. Its a bad bad day in the office if you have two blow up.

I don't think that any of us here are saying that single engines are dangerous and shouldn't be flown, however, and this is the big however, you have to start weighing up the conditions.

Day VFR over the flat land parts of Europe. Piston single, A-OK.
Day VFR in the summer over the English Channel at a reasonable altitude, with calm-ish sea conditions. Still fine.
You can see that the levels of safety are slowly being peeled away. At that point, it becomes when you are comfortable for those layers to stop being peeled off.

IFR - No time to find suitable landing spots, as most singles have a low approach speed, most field landings become akin to a car accident.
Night - As above, and unable to see unlit obstacles on approach.
Piston - Not as reliable as turbine.
Water conditions - possibility of a successful ditching. Same considerations as if flying over mountains or forest.
Water temp - survival and more importantly, ability to function.

This flight was attempted :-
1) At night.
2) Single engine.
3) Piston engine.
4) IFR.
5) Over rough waters.
6) Over winter waters.
7) In poor weather.
8) At low level.
9) Icing conditions at low level.

There was at least 9 layers of safety that were peeled away from this flight prior to it even leaving the ground. Some can argue the single pilot point as well in that it may have encouraged better decision making. Personally, with around 2500hrs single pilot ops, I think that the risk from that aspect can be negated, or at least reduced to a negligible level, with professionalism and planning.

As per the satellite tracking, 2.5 minute intervals vs Radar pings? At 180kts, thats still 7-8nm between pings. A search area of 64nm2.
Just prior to me leaving my last flying job, a PC-6 crashed into the mountains only 7nm from the departure airport. The aircraft was using spidertracks. Even with that, it still took a long time to find the aircraft and it was only spotted with the aid of some locals on the ground waving them towards the crash site.
Radar pings in this part of the world are about as accurate as the current cheap tracking software that is used. In the more remote parts of the world such as in America, Africa, Australia, Canada etc etc, then the satelitte tracking makes absolute sense.

In my years of GA, I have met a lot of interesting characters. Some are saying this if this was a commercial operation, then the both of them would still be alive. I disagree.

Regulators only really pay attention to small operators once they start making mistakes, or they have been shown to be dodgy when it comes to audit time. There are still many AOC holding operators who push their young pilots out into horrendous conditions. I have had that happen to me in Canada. It nearly cost me my life.
Other commercial pilots will still "give it a lash", relying on their skills to get them out of trouble if it occurs. Stopping briefly to have a cigarette after landing, before coming back tomorrow to do it all again.
To me, a life is a life. I don't care if its a celebrity who's paying me to fly them from A to B, or a friend on a cost sharing flight. Both are just as valuable and the same degree of mitigating factors can be applied before going flying. I've applied these to just about every one of my flights since day dot with my flight training.
I feel that this pilot would have conducted this flight whether it was an above or below board operation. The flight profile speaks volumes of this.
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Old 27th Jan 2019, 14:06
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Originally Posted by runway30
Sala plane from Nantes landed at Cardiff airport at 9.17am this morning and is now on his way to Hensol for the medical


Landing at 09:17 from LFRS/Nantes Atlantique is "N531EA" Eclipse EA.500 N531EA ..parking on the Cambrian apron

So when they wanted his signature, he got the Eclipse. When the money was in the bank, he got the Malibu piloted by the gas engineer. My level of disgust at this operation has risen to levels that I can’t describe.

Well that Eclipse Sala flew in is down as being privately owned by a Mark Farmer and a Jason Bannister (50% each) through another owner trustee in Delaware - Feggair Inc. So, via what channel(s) did Farmer/Bannister 'loan' the aircraft for the purposes of transporting Sala? Who paid and who flew it? For those thinking 'ah, but it could have been loaned as a favour', I suggest we get real here, unless Farmer/Bannister are in the football transfer business and their fees from this or another Mckay-related transfer deal more than compensated for the costs of lending their privately registered/operated Eclipse for the exercise.
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Old 27th Jan 2019, 14:20
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Well they make their intentions clear

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Old 27th Jan 2019, 14:25
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Originally Posted by lilflyboy262...2

@Truthseeker, The message regarding the "Same company" text was sent through on the 21st, the day of the accident flight, at around 1623. A few hours prior to departure.

I'm not sure where the eclipse that you are talking about fits into all of this, but interestingly enough, it is shown to be going into Guernsey at 1800 LCT that day. Probably a complete Red Herring and not worth going down that road.
On the 18th January Sala flew to Cardiff in N531EA to complete the transfer & medical to join Cardiff FC. ( SEE MESSAGE BELOW )
(18th January 2019) Sala plane from Nantes landed at Cardiff airport at 9.17am this morning and is now on his way to Hensol for the medical
Landing at 09:17 from LFRS/Nantes Atlantique is "N531EA" Eclipse EA.500 N531EA ..parking on the Cambrian apron
Nantes, France Friday 18-Jan-2019 09:21AM CET
Cardiff, United Kingdom Friday 18-Jan-2019 09:16AM GMT

On the 19th N531EA was on a charter from Biggin Hill (0801 GMT) to Paris Le Bourget (0951 CET) so not available for Sala to use, N531EA stayed in Paris Le Bourget until 1601 CET on the 21st before departing back to Biggin Hill with an arrival time of 1550 GMT.

Now this next bit is supposition: After Sala had used N531EA on the 18th it was flown to Guernsey at some point & then departed approx 1415GMT from Guernsey to be positioned to Biggin Hill for the Paris LB Charter the following day, it is also noted that N531EA after arriving back from Paris on the 21st @ 1550 GMT was then again flown from Biggin Hill (1709 GMT) to Guernsey arriving @ 1800 GMT......... Why did N531EA go back & forth to Guernsey? Who was onboard on these flights? supposition would be that a certain set of initials would be on these flights........ Why was N264DB allegedly flightplanned to Guernsey on the 19th but went to Nantes? it is obvious that Guernsey plays a part in this whole conundrum but where it fits in is anyone's guess?
The AAIB should look at the crew/passenger manifests for the period 18/01/2019 - 21/01/2019 for both N531EA & N264DB as I am pretty sure it will make an interesting list of names.
Special attention should be on who was crewing the aircraft on each flight.

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Old 27th Jan 2019, 14:29
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Originally Posted by lilflyboy262...2
I am aware that weather changes, however I flew in from London Luton that night. We arrived into Guernsey around 1745 LCT. We were then driving around lost until around 1900, the weather was more or less the same as when we arrived.
The tops of the clouds from Luton to Guernsey were around 5000ft for the whole flight. I can't comment on the icing other than there was some. We only had the anti-ice for the engine and windshield on and it was light at best. However, we were doing 250kts descending through it and therefore our TAT was around +3 if I recall correctly. The SAT was certainly below zero. We were only in it for around a minute or so before popping out the bottom of it. Ceilings at that point were 1900'

The really foul weather didn't start rolling through until around 0200 LCT. I would hazard a guess that at around 2023, the weather would still be well within the realm of that aircrafts capability. And certainly able for the aircraft to turn 180 and fly back out of the icing.

@Truthseeker, The message regarding the "Same company" text was sent through on the 21st, the day of the accident flight, at around 1623. A few hours prior to departure.

I'm not sure where the eclipse that you are talking about fits into all of this, but interestingly enough, it is shown to be going into Guernsey at 1800 LCT that day. Probably a complete Red Herring and not worth going down that road.
Now here is a reliable report on the prevailing wx conditions. It does go some distance to raise doubts over the speculation on icing and introduces more credence on the possibility of mechanical malfunction and failure.
Yes I do agree with most of the sentiment and outrage expressed over the matter of cowboy operations, grey charters, illegal flying, etc., nevertheless my real interest lies in the actual cause(s) of this accident. In that respect, unless the wreckage is recovered from the sea bed, the truth is most unlikely to come to light. Charts of the area show relatively shallow sea bed depths, so it should not be a difficult task to locate the wreckage. The main issue is who might be willing to foot the bill. Particularly given that this accident involved a N reg private aircraft with two on board. Of all the interested parties involved, I can only think the aircraft insurers may be the most likely to do so, within the terms of the liability cover under the policy.
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Old 27th Jan 2019, 14:37
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Originally Posted by lilflyboy262...2
Some are saying this if this was a commercial operation, then the both of them would still be alive. I disagree.
I'd say if this flight had been conducted at (say) FL160, that both of them would still be alive. If they couldn't maintain 160 in the prevailing weather, they'd likely have found out before crossing the French coast and would have had good diversion options.

Does anyone know if N264DB was FIKI-approved? The photos I've seen show it with boots, but the system may have subsequently been placarded INOP.

AIUI there's an issue with the windshield deicing on some PA46 aircraft; I've no idea if this has any relevance here.
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Old 27th Jan 2019, 14:38
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I have been very careful to only say what I know and never what I assume/suspect. I am now having to bite my tongue very hard..................
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Old 27th Jan 2019, 14:40
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Originally Posted by Cambridge172
Well that Eclipse Sala flew in is down as being privately owned by a Mark Farmer and a Jason Bannister (50% each) through another owner trustee in Delaware - Feggair Inc. So, via what channel(s) did Farmer/Bannister 'loan' the aircraft for the purposes of transporting Sala? Who paid and who flew it? For those thinking 'ah, but it could have been loaned as a favour', I suggest we get real here, unless Farmer/Bannister are in the football transfer business and their fees from this or another Mckay-related transfer deal more than compensated for the costs of lending their privately registered/operated Eclipse for the exercise.
Another twist to the story, the Eclipse 500 has Bruce Dickinson of Iron Maiden fame's name and logo on the nose along with the Mark Farmer mentioned above. So, is Bruce (who sells Eclipses as one string of his extensive aviation interests) a silent partner in N531EA - or not so silent with his name on the nose?! So who did they lend the aircraft to?

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Old 27th Jan 2019, 14:41
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Originally Posted by EXDAC
I have found an "FAA Safety Briefing" article dated September/October 2010 that references common purpose but I can find nothing in Part 91 that references or defines "common purpose". Is common purpose an FAA interpretation related to cost sharing or is defined by regulation? If defined by regulation, or even by Advisory Circular, I'd appreciate a reference.
FAA letter of interpretation in the Flytenow case.

https://www.kattenlaw.com/Flytenow-I...-Certification
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Old 27th Jan 2019, 14:46
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Originally Posted by Sillert,V.I.
I'd say if this flight had been conducted at (say) FL160, that both of them would still be alive. If they couldn't maintain 160 in the prevailing weather, they'd likely have found out before crossing the French coast and would have had good diversion options.

Does anyone know if N264DB was FIKI-approved? The photos I've seen show it with boots, but the system may have subsequently been placarded INOP.

AIUI there's an issue with the windshield deicing on some PA46 aircraft; I've no idea if this has any relevance here.
Exactly my point. You don't have to be a commerical op to be at FL160. FL100 would have been enough that night.
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Old 27th Jan 2019, 14:47
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Originally Posted by runway30
Well they make their intentions clear

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And the same Mark Farmer of the above 'Aircraft Charter' company (and reputed part owner of the Eclipse 500, N531EA that flew Sala) is also a director of an aviation charity too. Unfortunate.
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Old 27th Jan 2019, 14:48
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Originally Posted by Chronus
Now here is a reliable report on the prevailing wx conditions. It does go some distance to raise doubts over the speculation on icing and introduces more credence on the possibility of mechanical malfunction and failure.
Yes I do agree with most of the sentiment and outrage expressed over the matter of cowboy operations, grey charters, illegal flying, etc., nevertheless my real interest lies in the actual cause(s) of this accident. In that respect, unless the wreckage is recovered from the sea bed, the truth is most unlikely to come to light. Charts of the area show relatively shallow sea bed depths, so it should not be a difficult task to locate the wreckage. The main issue is who might be willing to foot the bill. Particularly given that this accident involved a N reg private aircraft with two on board. Of all the interested parties involved, I can only think the aircraft insurers may be the most likely to do so, within the terms of the liability cover under the policy.
I wasn't trying to imply that there wasn't icing about, as there most certainly was. Only that I wasn't in it for long. It wasn't freezing drizzle or rain. Prolonged flight at 5000' however.....
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Old 27th Jan 2019, 14:52
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Truthseeker, you seem to be deliberate in using the word charter. Do you know that these were charters and not the aircraft being lent without financial reward?
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Old 27th Jan 2019, 14:56
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Originally Posted by TRUTHSEEKER1

On the 19th N531EA was on a charter from Biggin Hill (0801 GMT) to Paris Le Bourget (0951 CET) so not available for Sala to use, N531EA stayed in Paris Le Bourget until 1601 CET on the 21st before departing back to Biggin Hill with an arrival time of 1550 GMT.

N531EA is NOT ON AN AOC - it cannot be 'Chartered' It is a privately owned/registered aircraft on the FAA N-register. It is not a PART-135 aircraft and even if it was, if it's flipping around all over Europe for hire and reward as a European-based and operated, but US-registered jet, that's still illegal - cabotage, freedoms of the air etc. etc.

This is unearthing a heap of trouble. I do hope the NTSB and the AAIB, the CAA and DGAC are watching all this.
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Old 27th Jan 2019, 15:05
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N531EA could be being used for illegal public transport but we don’t know that. It could be that the owners are very generous and have a lot of mates that they fly around for free.
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Old 27th Jan 2019, 15:13
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On offer:

1. A flight to France from England, single engine - any day, date, time, overnight, departure point, destination you require, IFR or VFR.

also on offer;

2. A flight to France from England, single engine - any day, date, time, overnight, departure point, destination you require, IFR or VFR.


One is Wingly (or facebook offer, flyer on the pub notice board, et all), the other is an illegal charter - which one is which ?????


That's the problem, the stable door is now open and the public do not have a clue what they are getting themselves into (I'm not being disrespectful). Even if you can find the line between a cost sharing flight and an illegal charter the temptation to over step is massive - because there is no oversight and 'what's the difference anyway' might be the attitude. However, the deviation from legal (safe, sensible) will continue to get bigger until we have significant, professional and emotional moments, one of which we "might" have had this week.

Like most things regarding EASA / EU I often think, "who dreamt that rule up" and "how do I get to speak to them to tell them they're nuts" - a few years ago I saw first hand what goes on with rule changes in EASA to the business benefit of those who effect/propose them. I was disgusted.

Who woke up one morning and thought, let's allow PPLs with 60-70 hours total time, 3 hours on type, who only have to chip in 1 euro cent or 1p, offer charter flights (that's what they are !!!) across international boundaries and large areas of water. WHO THOUGHT THAT WAS ACCEPTABLE? WHO DREAMT THIS UP? WHO PUSHED THIS THROUGH? WHO SIGNED IT OFF ? IT'S THE EU - WE'LL NEVER KNOW !!

By law EASA has to do an economic impact study on the effect of their rule making - there can be few people in aviation that could not have told them the effect of this rule change on AOCs, flying clubs etc. The "excuse" for this rule making, from the UK side at least, was to "stimulate" GA activity .... doh ..... did they ask anyone in the GA business community???

This rule making is fundamentally flawed - it was set out "categorically" as EQUAL cost sharing between friends and fellow pilots (copies available) - I did not respond to the associated consultation because I did not have a problem with that - as soon as the law was passed we then found ourselves in the present situation with some regulators doing a complete 180 in full support of the current situation - "it's legal" we were told, and as we all know, the second bit of that phrase is, "but that doesn't mean it's safe". It should be remembered that these cost sharing companies effectively employ the PPLs - n.b. if PPLs do not fly the flights and honour the gift vouchers sold by these companies then they have no business - profit out of the flight ? "Commercial pressure" on 60-70 hour PPLs ???

The genie needs to be put back in the bottle - this needs a legal challenge, a judicial review - if the EU allows that kind of thing !!!??!!
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Old 27th Jan 2019, 15:15
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Originally Posted by Avioactive
N531EA is NOT ON AN AOC - it cannot be 'Chartered' It is a privately owned/registered aircraft on the FAA N-register. It is not a PART-135 aircraft and even if it was, if it's flipping around all over Europe for hire and reward as a European-based and operated, but US-registered jet, that's still illegal - cabotage, freedoms of the air etc. etc.

This is unearthing a heap of trouble. I do hope the NTSB and the AAIB, the CAA and DGAC are watching all this.
7th Freedom rights between the countries used for departure and arrival required
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Old 27th Jan 2019, 15:18
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Originally Posted by Chronus
unless the wreckage is recovered from the sea bed, the truth is most unlikely to come to light. .
Out of curiosity, how ? no CVR , no FDR, and afaik ( but stand to be corrected) the memory on a Garmin is unlikely to be readable after a week in salt water .

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Old 27th Jan 2019, 15:18
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That will be Jason Bannister who runs a well known and much advertised oak furniture business then
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Old 27th Jan 2019, 15:19
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Originally Posted by BluSdUp
So
Lets compare professions:
Pilots and Doctors
This poor footballer was in for some minor surgery, expecting a Surgeon.?
He got a pipe fitter with a dull knife.
Tragic
As someone with a foot in both camps, I do find it somewhat ironic that the medical profession is frequently exhorted to learn safety lessons from the aviation sector (such as the recognition of the importance of Human Factors, and the existence of CHIRP, in particular). Of course, a licence to practice medicine does not include a category equivalent to the PPL (or LAPL or NPL, whatever they might be), so a comparison with the commercial aviation industry is altogether more appropriate, the excellent CHIRP GA Feedback notwithstanding.

The General Medical Council (equivalent to the CAA, I guess - certainly in terms of its level of fees!) maintains both a General Register and Specialist Register (overseeing the equivalents of CPL, IR, ATPL and Type Ratings, I guess - but not requiring regular Medical Certificates, curiously). As in aviation, however, there are always the outliers (frauds with bogus qualifications, and those who push the envelope of their licences, such as GPs offering a sideline in minor cosmetic surgery) but, by and large, the SLF equivalent can be pretty confident that an NHS medical practitioner is, at least, competent. A practitioner wishing to work in the private sector will find it exceedingly difficult to do so without phenomenally expensive medico-legal insurance cover.

Meanwhile, the aviation sector is awash with “grey ops”, and has been for as long as I can remember. As one of the first cohorts of wannabee FIs to need a BCPL for a role that previously, and subsequently, demanded only a PPL, I was not best pleased initially, but quickly came to realise how much better a pilot, and therefore an instructor, this additional knowledge and experience made me; I subsequently went on to gain a CPR/IR, purely for reasons of self-satisfaction.

As such, I was not infrequently approached to act as front-seat freight on single-pilot charters, in order to give the illusion of redundancy to the SLF, who tended to expect two bodies up front. Rarely was I type-rated on the aircraft concerned; sometimes, I’d never even have set eyes upon one, and was able to contribute little more to the flight than changing the squawk. It was fun when I was younger, although I did rapidly became bored with hanging around in LSGG, Frankfurt or wherever until the SLF had concluded whatever business was so important as to preclude a commercial flight. My final such trip was a scud-running VFR flight home from Brussels, when even sensible pigeons had grounded themselves voluntarily. No surgeon would have risked his licence, let alone his life, when the evidence base clearly demonstrated the degree of risk involved. That must have been around 30 years ago now; thereafter, whilst I’ve relinquished the left-hand seat to many a low-hours student, admittedly in the knowledge that I could always assume control myself if necessary, I have never again done so to a “professional” with whose qualifications and experience I was not personally familiar.

That the circumstances which, in 2019, have led to the death of an individual of great footballing talent, but with no appreciation of the shortcomings of aviation regulation and oversight, have been allowed to continue unchecked, is, in my view, wholly disgraceful.
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