Cardiff City Footballer Feared Missing after aircraft disappeared near Channel Island

[Timmy Tomkins]

Originally Posted by Suvarnabhumi

Wow, GA in the UK has changed immeasurably with "Globalisation" since I was last involved there 22 years ago.

So all I have to do now is pop over to Florida and buy a thrashed out "complex single" eg a 1984 Malibu, own it through some offshore company trust type setup, keep it on on N reg, get my FAA PPL while I'm there, make some connections in UK with "Fixer/Agent" types/wealthy circles , and I'm good to go, International "charters", sorry , I mean doing a mate a favour/cost sharing , including overwater, night , winter, single engine flights. I'll be quids in.

CAA have really dropped the ball.

My thoughts exactly. I was an air taxi pilot in the 1980s before going into the airlines and I never heard of anything like this. We were a 2 aircraft operation and had our own ops inspector (subsequently a very senior person in the CAA and very professional) could cost cutting have anything to do with the hands off approach now?

[meleagertoo]

Originally Posted by Timmy Tomkins

My thoughts exactly. I was an air taxi pilot in the 1980s before going into the airlines and I never heard of anything like this.

Much the same as me. I knew this sort of thing happened too but had no idea it was so apparently widespread

[runway30]

I don’t know whether Cool Flourish Ltd. owned this aircraft or not because I can’t find the database in the US that others have quoted. However two Chartered Accountants acquiring 2 £1 shares from other nominees leads to the suspicion that they are themselves nominees and are just another layer obscuring the ownership of this company. Is this really the lack of transparency that we want in air transport? Uncovering the ownership of the aircraft would probably give more answers as to what has gone on here. Maybe when we get into charges/financial claims, someone will start talking?

[3wheels]

Originally Posted by meleagertoo

Even leaving Wingly aside is it just me or is it beginning to look as though there is a whole, widespread and extensive industry going on in the UK flying illegal charters on N reg (and possibly others) aircraft to the severe detriment of bona-fide AOC operators and the CAA is just sitting there fat, dumb and happy and doing sweet fanny adams about it?
Just how big is this particular elephant in our room?

Normalised Deviation. I don’t think there has ever been such a good example.

[CBSITCB]

Regarding the 'transcript' in post #524

Originally Posted by diffident

Doesn't really reveal anything new any of that lot to be fair, other than Emiliano Sala being able to command a great level of writing English considering he's from South America and played his football in France. I haven't heard any full interviews with him in the British media so he may have a great standard of English, but he only spoke Portuguese on the released tape recording from the night. I might be looking at it too deeply and being too suspicious, but something doesn't seem right to me.

I wonder what is the source of the transcript? It doesn’t have the appearance of a character-for-character copy from some sort of communication device (even if subsequently tidied-up).

Could it just be an after-the-fact subjective summary of the conversations? It does seem to have very good grammar and punctuation and be a bit ‘wordy’ for a series of text messages.

It just popped-up on Sky News four days after the event as “Text messages released between Sala and Jack McKay”. Released by whom - does anyone know?

[Chronus]

The remarkable feature of this accident is the fact that a high value soccer player was being transported in a single engine aircraft, at night over water, by a 59 year old wannabe pilot plumber.
I do wonder in making the arrangements for the flight as to what sort of representations were made regarding the owner, operator and pilot. Whichever way you look at the picture, it is grim for all who have been involved. Some very serious legal consequences are inevitable.

[runway30]

Originally Posted by CBSITCB

Regarding the 'transcript' in post #524



I wonder what is the source of the transcript? It doesn’t have the appearance of a character-for-character copy from some sort of communication device (even if subsequently tidied-up).

Could it just be an after-the-fact subjective summary of the conversations? It does seem to have very good grammar and punctuation and be a bit ‘wordy’ for a series of text messages.

It just popped-up on Sky News four days after the event as “Text messages released between Sala and Jack McKay”. Released by whom - does anyone know?

It has been released by the McKays as part of the ‘Nothing to do with me’ campaign. It has clearly been edited/part redacted.

[HarryMann]

Originally Posted by CBSITCB

Regarding the 'transcript' in post #524



I wonder what is the source of the transcript? It doesn’t have the appearance of a character-for-character copy from some sort of communication device (even if subsequently tidied-up).

Could it just be an after-the-fact subjective summary of the conversations? It does seem to have very good grammar and punctuation and be a bit ‘wordy’ for a series of text messages.

It just popped-up on Sky News four days after the event as “Text messages released between Sala and Jack McKay”. Released by whom - does anyone know?

Looks very typical to me.... and very credible too. Not sure how brief you get but much less and as we so often find, the content can be misconstrued or needs another text to clarify! Then there's the good manners aspect of not being rudely too brief.
No I doubt a journo wouldn't want to say exactly how they came across it though. But I'd put a fiver on it being pretty near the mark.

[DaveReidUK]

Originally Posted by TRUTHSEEKER1

The Cessna 421B is G-BBUJ which was damaged at Portimao before August 2000. It still sits there at Portimao

Presumably that's the incident referred to in the company report (although that states that it happened in FY2001/02).

It sounds like the aircraft never returned to the UK - it was cancelled from the UK register in September 2007 as "transferred to Portugal" and restored in June 2011, now owned by Portimao-based Aero VIP.

Its status has been "No flight" since June 2015, suggesting that it was flying prior to that.

[helimutt]

Originally Posted by Sir Niall Dementia

Has always been so, and in the rotary sector you'll probably find the worst offenders, one of whom cheerfully posts about it on the Rotor Heads forum. In terms of pachyderm size we're roughly at woolly mammoth, and around the same age.

SND

ie the elephant wouldn't fit into a room!!!!! And I know who you mean on Rotorheads....

[Sir Niall Dementia]

Originally Posted by helimutt

ie the elephant wouldn't fit into a room!!!!! And I know who you mean on Rotorheads....

Thought you might!

SND

[Expressflight]

Originally Posted by TRUTHSEEKER1

The Cessna 421B is G-BBUJ which was damaged at Portimao before August 2000. It still sits there at Portimao

That aircraft used to be on my company's AOC in the 1980s, although we flew it almost exclusively for the automotive company that owned it. In light of the amazing revelations appearing here regarding non AOC 'charters' I'm pleased not to be in the business now. The CAA's attitude even in those days was far from satisfactory in this regard. We regularly flew a local company's executives from SEN to GLA in an Aztec and one day I was processing some other pax in the terminal at SEN. I noticed these clients there apparently chatting to a freelance pilot we often used and who had, in fact flown them under our AOC previously. It turned out they were flying to GLA in an Aztec this pilot had hired for them and they said "well, it's a lot cheaper to pay him the hire cost and for his services than using your company". I pointed out that his CPL did not allow him to offer this type of service and that their insurance could well be invalid if they went ahead and something went wrong. They shrugged this off so I phoned the CAA, told them the story and suggested they ramp check the aircraft at GLA. As it would be day stopping at GLA they would have plenty of time to organise this but they never did and I heard nothing more from them; no follow up at all. Obviously things haven't changed for the better since the 1980s.

[Redredrobin]

In the BBC story covering the texts, in Sport, not News

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/47013474

the exchange is noted as being translated from the original French, which accounts for its unnatural feel perhaps?

[strake]

the exchange is noted as being translated from the original French, which accounts for its unnatural feel perhaps?

Here in France, any reporting on the transcript is clear that it comes from UK sources. I think that means that Willie McKay released it to the UK press having gained it from his son Jack who plays for Cardiff and having spent a considerable time in France, probably speaks French. I also think the transcript has been tidied-up to make it understandable because any text exchanges I happen to see between my kid's and friends are full of French colloquialisms!
The media here are also stressing the point that McKay has clearly stated that neither he nor his sons (two players and an agent) have any connection to the aircraft in question. They also state that they have contacted one person in the past, who runs an aircraft consultancy, to arrange flights around Europe which is exactly what they did this time.
Finally, while this incident is not getting the same level of coverage in French light aviation forums as it is in the UK, I have noted a couple of comments raising the question of how a passport from someone not actually in France was scanned or photocopied in Nantes

[jumpseater]

Whilst acknowledging Wingly are not involved in the incident flight I did a quick check on their FB feed and found a piece by Simon Calder re how useful this service is. On 24th July 2017 Wingly responded to at least two separate questions on the minimum hours question , with the reply that A-B flights required the pilots to have a minimum of 100 hours. I wonder if there’s a lower requirement for A-A flights? no one seems to have asked at that time. What is clear is no one at Wingly is monitoring their own ‘procedures’.

[Raymond Dome]

Is it just me that finds general aviation totally depressing? You read today's accident reports and they are exactly the same as the accident reports of 30 or 40 years ago. The same idiots doing the same stupid things with the same inevitable results. The same over-confident pilots overestimating their own limited abilities. The same petty crooks running the same dodgy charter operations. The same spineless authorities preferring to spend their time nitpicking reputable operators rather than enforcing the law against the real rogues etc etc.
All the while innocent people are losing their lives as a result.
Today, on this thread, I have learned for the first time of the existence of flight-sharing apps. God help us!

[Gurnard]

Contradictions...
This whole episode is riddled with contradictions. Mark McKay originally admitted arranging the flight, now Willie McKay says he did!
A few other points raise questions:-
1. Why did the a/c depart Cardiff for Guernsey at 12.15 on Saturday 19th, rather than flying direct to NTS? The return was planned as a direct flight.
2. Did it actually land in GCI?
3. How many POB were there when it left Cardiff?
4. Knowing that the passenger flew into Cardiff earlier (Friday) on Eclipse N531EA which regularly visits Guernsey, was a crew member from that a/c simply being given transport there?
5. Presumably DI was flying the a/c on Saturday as noted from his comment about his skills being a little rusty, but was he the sole crew member?
6. We are told the flight from Nantes to Cardiff on Monday was delayed by up to 10 hours, but the transcript of the messages sent to and from the passenger reveal that all along he was wanting a return to Cardiff on Monday evening - not earlier in the day. How can this contradiction be explained?
7. Apparently his "luggage" was photographed. Has anyone seen the picture to know if it was excessive?
8. Was extra fuel put on board contributing the excessive weight?
9. Might the additional weight have caused only two to travel on the fated flight rather than three? (We are still unclear as to the whereabouts of DH on Monday.)

[alfaaloop]

I was totally unaware of Wingly until reading this thread so just had a look. To take one example, someone advertising their sight seeing service with 70 hours TT experience on a PA28. To Joe Public this may sound a lot and they may happily jump in trusting their pilot to SAFELY conduct the flight. However, anyone with aviation knowledge would realise how little experience this pilot has and could make their decisions based on that. I think the main issue is that people think a qualified pilot is just that, without any understanding of what exactly they’re qualified to do and handle, and more importantly not to do or handle.
I hope the tragic events of late bring some awareness to the people using these sites and services, and that the quality of the pilot can vary hugely.

[Arkroyal]

Originally Posted by Gurnard

Contradictions...
This whole episode is riddled with contradictions. Mark McKay originally admitted arranging the flight, now Willie McKay says he did!
A few other points raise questions:-
1. Why did the a/c depart Cardiff for Guernsey at 12.15 on Saturday 19th, rather than flying direct to NTS? The return was planned as a direct flight.
2. Did it actually land in GCI?
3. How many POB were there when it left Cardiff?
4. Knowing that the passenger flew into Cardiff earlier (Friday) on Eclipse N531EA which regularly visits Guernsey, was a crew member from that a/c simply being given transport there?
5. Presumably DI was flying the a/c on Saturday as noted from his comment about his skills being a little rusty, but was he the sole crew member?
6. We are told the flight from Nantes to Cardiff on Monday was delayed by up to 10 hours, but the transcript of the messages sent to and from the passenger reveal that all along he was wanting a return to Cardiff on Monday evening - not earlier in the day. How can this contradiction be explained?
7. Apparently his "luggage" was photographed. Has anyone seen the picture to know if it was excessive?
8. Was extra fuel put on board contributing the excessive weight?
9. Might the additional weight have caused only two to travel on the fated flight rather than three? (We are still unclear as to the whereabouts of DH on Monday.)

Erm...... what excessive weight?

[what next]

Hello!

Originally Posted by Raymond Dome

Is it just me that finds general aviation totally depressing?

I know what you mean and you are absolutely right, but "GA" is much more than those private flights (someone already pointed this out some pages back). NetJets, just to name one of the most prominent ones, and lots of other commercial operators of charter airplanes operate by the same standards as airlines and have a similar safety record. Many companies have (private in the sense of the legislation) corporate flying departments that operate at an even higher level. All these are "GA". In my view that is the safest way to fly - otherwise multi-billion corporations would not allow their top executives to use them.

Unfortunately accidents like the one we are discussing here discredit general aviation as a whole by assigning attributes like "unsafe", "dangerous", "cowboy" and "lethal" to lightplane operation. My personal consequence of this accident will be to report any such flight I am aware of to the authorities in the future. So far whistleblowing has never been my thing, but I earn my living as a "GA" pilot and I will do everything I can to prevent operations like the one that led to this accident to compromise my professional environment.