Cardiff City Footballer Feared Missing after aircraft disappeared near Channel Island
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Nope....just Mode S....and thanks for FR24 explanation...makes sense.
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There is no suggestion of this in the Ouest-France article previously linked to
"[Henderson]'s ID card was checked at Nantes airport on Monday January 21st, the day on which the aircraft departed, as were those of Emiliano Sala and David Ibbotson"
"[Henderson]'s ID card was checked at Nantes airport on Monday January 21st, the day on which the aircraft departed, as were those of Emiliano Sala and David Ibbotson"
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The thing is, either:
1. DH is telling the truth, he wasn't at Nantes - but his ID was presented there, and a flight plan was filed with his name on it.
or
2. DH is not telling the truth, when he said that he hasn't been there for over a year.
Whichever of the above is true, it makes me feel uneasy.
1. DH is telling the truth, he wasn't at Nantes - but his ID was presented there, and a flight plan was filed with his name on it.
or
2. DH is not telling the truth, when he said that he hasn't been there for over a year.
Whichever of the above is true, it makes me feel uneasy.
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I believe this conversation derails on the cost sharing / wingly side.
There is no sign whatever indicating that the doomed flight was a cost sharing one.
There are indications that the agent mentioned above (McKay?) had access to the plane and that he had used the services of DI in the past for other private flights.
I don't think any individual in this sad story had problem facing the operating cost of this flight and I think it is very likely that the whole operating cost was taken by the flight organiser.
If my guesses are true, it's a genuine private flight.
It may be that the pilot was not properly licenced, but that's another issue.
The real issues that led to a disaster are how the flight was planned and conducted.
And for all these anathema on cost sharing, I think that most ordinary people have no idea that they can fly on a small airplane through some car-sharing schema.
Mr and Mrs Smith rightly think that cheap air travel is with low-cost airlines.
I think that most putative passengers looking for flights on wingly are attracted by the adventurous scent of flying in small airplanes.
Further, these activities are not taking any business away from air-taxi companies : regular air-taxi customers will never put their live at risk in a wingly flight and they have the money for professional air-taxis.
So, please leave aside this hysteria about cost sharing models and come back to this private flight that went fatally wrong.
There is no sign whatever indicating that the doomed flight was a cost sharing one.
There are indications that the agent mentioned above (McKay?) had access to the plane and that he had used the services of DI in the past for other private flights.
I don't think any individual in this sad story had problem facing the operating cost of this flight and I think it is very likely that the whole operating cost was taken by the flight organiser.
If my guesses are true, it's a genuine private flight.
It may be that the pilot was not properly licenced, but that's another issue.
The real issues that led to a disaster are how the flight was planned and conducted.
And for all these anathema on cost sharing, I think that most ordinary people have no idea that they can fly on a small airplane through some car-sharing schema.
Mr and Mrs Smith rightly think that cheap air travel is with low-cost airlines.
I think that most putative passengers looking for flights on wingly are attracted by the adventurous scent of flying in small airplanes.
Further, these activities are not taking any business away from air-taxi companies : regular air-taxi customers will never put their live at risk in a wingly flight and they have the money for professional air-taxis.
So, please leave aside this hysteria about cost sharing models and come back to this private flight that went fatally wrong.
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very often, you might have a computer program and it has flight plans on it. You tend to keep old flight plans so that if you do the same flight or similar, its just a case of filling in a few details and times etc. You fill in a box with the name of the pilot. Maybe he just neglected to change it. Maybe it was a rush job at the time and he didn't notice. Maybe he asked DH to fill the FP in for him?? We don't know any of the real facts as yet so better not to speculate too much. Speculation is fair and reasonable if reigned in, but starting to say things like using another identity? Maybe not the right thing to be posting.
You are not flying a single piston engine aircraft in bad weather, at night, in winter, over open sea, without a serious flight preparation, unless you are a reckless pilot.
This airplane had the potential for flying on top of the weather.
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To get their exact details I'd need to pay to access the CCJ register so I can't be bothered.
All such matters are useful background to possibly add to why exactly he was doing this flight....and why you might have avoided him at all costs.
Anyway......to the a/c ownership
Here are the companies house details for Cool Flourish Ltd the supposed real owner of the a/c behind the trusteeship according to a previous post on here supplying info taken from an unnamed USA source
https://beta.companieshouse.gov.uk/company/03503845
Exactly what they "do" is uncertain
I note that in 2007 the annual accounts says their Golden Eagle a/c was damaged the previous year.
Directors are Ms F Keely and Ms H Keely
Cool Flourish Ltd certainly owned G-FAVS from 2012 to 2017
Ms F is a chartered accountant which checks out on the ACA register and appears to have a PPL from weblinks found elsewhere
Unfortunately the vast majority of people could not tell the difference between a 100hr TT PPL and an ex FJ 20K TT heavy Captain. to them they are a "pilot" and they make the assumption that a "pilot" can fly anything, ignorance is breathtaking.
That apparently this guy had a (possibly FAA) PPL without an IR (or even IMC), no night rating and was flying SEP in bad weather with icing at night... FFS rather him than me... but taking somebody along with him.... well out of order.
Sorry, no matter how this turns out pretty obvious this flight should not have taken place in those circumstances.
That apparently this guy had a (possibly FAA) PPL without an IR (or even IMC), no night rating and was flying SEP in bad weather with icing at night... FFS rather him than me... but taking somebody along with him.... well out of order.
Sorry, no matter how this turns out pretty obvious this flight should not have taken place in those circumstances.
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flash8, we don't know the licence details of the pilot.
That will be investigated by the AAIB.
Other people here have shown that public licence databases cannot be trusted to be comprehensive.
That will be investigated by the AAIB.
Other people here have shown that public licence databases cannot be trusted to be comprehensive.
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1) Licence
2) Log book
3) Have a check ride
4) The owner has wanted to know what I will be doing so that I don’t invalidate their insurance
5) There has been a discrete phone call to my home airfield
I wouldn’t have it any other way
I believe this conversation derails on the cost sharing / wingly side.
There is no sign whatever indicating that the doomed flight was a cost sharing one.
There are indications that the agent mentioned above (McKay?) had access to the plane and that he had used the services of DI in the past for other private flights.
I don't think any individual in this sad story had problem facing the operating cost of this flight and I think it is very likely that the whole operating cost was taken by the flight organiser.
If my guesses are true, it's a genuine private flight.
It may be that the pilot was not properly licenced, but that's another issue.
The real issues that led to a disaster are how the flight was planned and conducted.
And for all these anathema on cost sharing, I think that most ordinary people have no idea that they can fly on a small airplane through some car-sharing schema.
Mr and Mrs Smith rightly think that cheap air travel is with low-cost airlines.
I think that most putative passengers looking for flights on wingly are attracted by the adventurous scent of flying in small airplanes.
Further, these activities are not taking any business away from air-taxi companies : regular air-taxi customers will never put their live at risk in a wingly flight and they have the money for professional air-taxis.
So, please leave aside this hysteria about cost sharing models and come back to this private flight that went fatally wrong.
There is no sign whatever indicating that the doomed flight was a cost sharing one.
There are indications that the agent mentioned above (McKay?) had access to the plane and that he had used the services of DI in the past for other private flights.
I don't think any individual in this sad story had problem facing the operating cost of this flight and I think it is very likely that the whole operating cost was taken by the flight organiser.
If my guesses are true, it's a genuine private flight.
It may be that the pilot was not properly licenced, but that's another issue.
The real issues that led to a disaster are how the flight was planned and conducted.
And for all these anathema on cost sharing, I think that most ordinary people have no idea that they can fly on a small airplane through some car-sharing schema.
Mr and Mrs Smith rightly think that cheap air travel is with low-cost airlines.
I think that most putative passengers looking for flights on wingly are attracted by the adventurous scent of flying in small airplanes.
Further, these activities are not taking any business away from air-taxi companies : regular air-taxi customers will never put their live at risk in a wingly flight and they have the money for professional air-taxis.
So, please leave aside this hysteria about cost sharing models and come back to this private flight that went fatally wrong.
Surprised they were not ramp checked, the French authorities seemed to be super keen on N reg aircraft originating from UK a while back. All documents checked albeit for VAT purposes mainly I thought.
Unfortunately the vast majority of people could not tell the difference between a 100hr TT PPL and an ex FJ 20K TT heavy Captain. to them they are a "pilot" and they make the assumption that a "pilot" can fly anything, ignorance is breathtaking.
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To that I venture to reply that while my ignorance may be breathtaking (although somewhat reduced after participating here) if professional pilots want to counter the likes of Wingly, they need make the issues a lot simpler to understand if they expect us lesser mortals to have any chance of making useful distinctions.
Particular thanks to those who have taken the time to do some education for my benefit (and doubtless a lot of non-posting readers).
Particular thanks to those who have taken the time to do some education for my benefit (and doubtless a lot of non-posting readers).
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Cardiff City could launch a negligence claim over the Emiliano Sala plane disaster as the club faces a financial loss of around £14 million even after insurance payouts, The Daily Telegraph can disclose.
Senior figures at the club are increasingly concerned by the decision to fly their record signing across the English Channel in a single-engined plane built in 1984 and piloted by a part-time gas engineer.
Cardiff are now considering their legal position as they face a three-year contract bill estimated by accountants at £30million, including a £2.5million agents fee. Accident insurance is only likely to cover half the forecasted loss. One source payments from Cardiff to Nantes have been frozen until officials have established the facts from the crash.
Last night the club told The Telegraph: "Cardiff has made its position very clear that it had nothing to do with the arrangements of the flight, and now new information is coming in every day as we are continuing to investigate the chain of events and the cause of the accident. We are looking at the potential possibility of negligence that may have caused the accident.”
The flight was booked independently by Sala's agent and Mark McKay, an intermediary in the deal. Emergency service believe the plane crashed into the sea on Monday night after taking off from Nantes, north-west France. The club is particularly keen to discuss the chain of events with the owners of the US-registered Piper PA-46-310P Malibu. A portrait of Emiliano Sala displayed in front of the entrance of the FC Nantes football club training centre CREDIT: GETTY IMAGESFollow your club now for first access to all our news, views and analysis
CardiffA total £20million transfer fee had been agreed with Nantes, including a £3million bonus if the club survived relegation. Sala had been due at his first training session in Wales on Tuesday. The transfer documents had already been filed with the FA and Fifa. Cardiff "will pay whatever is due, once they have established all the answers and can determine all the facts", a source said.
The search for the aircraft officially ended on Thursday, against the wishes of his family. Rescue crews had covered an area of around 1,700 square miles of land and sea without finding any remains of the aircraft. Yesterday, Lionel Messi and Diego Maradona both supported calls to resume the search. A receptionist at the hotel where the pilot had been staying also added to the mystery by she believed the plane had been due to leave up to 10 hours before it eventually took off.
The club is believed to have had £16million (20.9m euros) of personal accident (PA) protection with the financial giant Lloyd’s to cover its players. Trade magazine Insurance Insider reports the club’s accident policy is led by China Re Syndicate 2088 and brokered by Miller. Sala’s name is likely to have been added to the Premier League club’s policy when the transfer was completed on January 19, just two days before his death. China Re’s lead line represents around 16 percent of the total limit, with other Lloyd’s insurers set to pay the rest of the claim. The Piper Malibu aircraft, which vanished off the coast of Guernsey, is also insured in the London market.
The minimum £17million transfer fee for the Argentinian striker, excluding the £3million Premier League survival bonus. was previously agreed to be paid in three instalments. The player's agent, Meissa N'Diaye, and McKay were also due huge windfalls.Romina Sala, sister of the missing footballer, pleaded with the authorities to continue the search for the missing plane on Friday CREDIT: GETTY IMAGESIn addition to the £30million bill - which includes Sala's projected salary and fees - the club is braced for a subsequent impact on revenue from sponsorship arrangements and shirt sales. One source said the club will pay Nantes "whatever they believe to be a fair amount once they have established all the possibilities, including any negligence claims".
The plane was built in 1984, and was registered in the United States rather than Britain through a company based in Norfolk.
The owners said in a statement issued by Southern Aircraft Consultancy they are "fully cooperating with the appropriate authorities, including the AAIB (air investigators) and police".
The pilot, Dave Ibbotson, held a private pilot's licence, according to US Federal Aviation Aviation Administration records. There is no public record of him having a commercial qualification. Ian Marshall, a friend of Mr Ibbotson’s who sat with him on the British Parachute Association council, told The Guardian: “Most of the pilots who have these private licences are semi-commercial. You’re not meant to fly for any financial reward but that’s not to say you can’t fly for reasonable expenses. That’s how many of them get around it."
Ken Choo, the chief executive, recognised the club is now facing a severe striker shortage as the transfer window expires. However, the interim Premier League chief executive Richard Masters has apparently told him the league is powerless to offer any special dispensations to make a signing beyond the end of January.
Senior figures at the club are increasingly concerned by the decision to fly their record signing across the English Channel in a single-engined plane built in 1984 and piloted by a part-time gas engineer.
Cardiff are now considering their legal position as they face a three-year contract bill estimated by accountants at £30million, including a £2.5million agents fee. Accident insurance is only likely to cover half the forecasted loss. One source payments from Cardiff to Nantes have been frozen until officials have established the facts from the crash.
Last night the club told The Telegraph: "Cardiff has made its position very clear that it had nothing to do with the arrangements of the flight, and now new information is coming in every day as we are continuing to investigate the chain of events and the cause of the accident. We are looking at the potential possibility of negligence that may have caused the accident.”
The flight was booked independently by Sala's agent and Mark McKay, an intermediary in the deal. Emergency service believe the plane crashed into the sea on Monday night after taking off from Nantes, north-west France. The club is particularly keen to discuss the chain of events with the owners of the US-registered Piper PA-46-310P Malibu. A portrait of Emiliano Sala displayed in front of the entrance of the FC Nantes football club training centre CREDIT: GETTY IMAGESFollow your club now for first access to all our news, views and analysis
CardiffA total £20million transfer fee had been agreed with Nantes, including a £3million bonus if the club survived relegation. Sala had been due at his first training session in Wales on Tuesday. The transfer documents had already been filed with the FA and Fifa. Cardiff "will pay whatever is due, once they have established all the answers and can determine all the facts", a source said.
The search for the aircraft officially ended on Thursday, against the wishes of his family. Rescue crews had covered an area of around 1,700 square miles of land and sea without finding any remains of the aircraft. Yesterday, Lionel Messi and Diego Maradona both supported calls to resume the search. A receptionist at the hotel where the pilot had been staying also added to the mystery by she believed the plane had been due to leave up to 10 hours before it eventually took off.
The club is believed to have had £16million (20.9m euros) of personal accident (PA) protection with the financial giant Lloyd’s to cover its players. Trade magazine Insurance Insider reports the club’s accident policy is led by China Re Syndicate 2088 and brokered by Miller. Sala’s name is likely to have been added to the Premier League club’s policy when the transfer was completed on January 19, just two days before his death. China Re’s lead line represents around 16 percent of the total limit, with other Lloyd’s insurers set to pay the rest of the claim. The Piper Malibu aircraft, which vanished off the coast of Guernsey, is also insured in the London market.
The minimum £17million transfer fee for the Argentinian striker, excluding the £3million Premier League survival bonus. was previously agreed to be paid in three instalments. The player's agent, Meissa N'Diaye, and McKay were also due huge windfalls.Romina Sala, sister of the missing footballer, pleaded with the authorities to continue the search for the missing plane on Friday CREDIT: GETTY IMAGESIn addition to the £30million bill - which includes Sala's projected salary and fees - the club is braced for a subsequent impact on revenue from sponsorship arrangements and shirt sales. One source said the club will pay Nantes "whatever they believe to be a fair amount once they have established all the possibilities, including any negligence claims".
The plane was built in 1984, and was registered in the United States rather than Britain through a company based in Norfolk.
The owners said in a statement issued by Southern Aircraft Consultancy they are "fully cooperating with the appropriate authorities, including the AAIB (air investigators) and police".
The pilot, Dave Ibbotson, held a private pilot's licence, according to US Federal Aviation Aviation Administration records. There is no public record of him having a commercial qualification. Ian Marshall, a friend of Mr Ibbotson’s who sat with him on the British Parachute Association council, told The Guardian: “Most of the pilots who have these private licences are semi-commercial. You’re not meant to fly for any financial reward but that’s not to say you can’t fly for reasonable expenses. That’s how many of them get around it."
Ken Choo, the chief executive, recognised the club is now facing a severe striker shortage as the transfer window expires. However, the interim Premier League chief executive Richard Masters has apparently told him the league is powerless to offer any special dispensations to make a signing beyond the end of January.
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I wasn't aware there were so many low hours pilots advertising their services on Wingly in UK.
Where I am based, this activity is nonexistent.
I looked for flight offers from a small UK aerodrome I am familiar with and found 9 pilots advertising flights.
None with more than 350 flight hours, 2 with less than 100 hours, 1 with 14 hours on type.
Scary.
Anyhow, this is unrelated to the accident.
I am reminded of a jet charter into Aspen where the customers turned up late so that the arrival time would be in the dark, when the airport is closed. The HNW customer insisted that they absolutely had to be in Aspen. Unfortunately they hit an unlit hill on approach and missed the event.
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If this Piper was owned by Fay Keely and it's now sitting on the bottom of the English Channel, I wonder if the insurance will pay out if it was being operated illegally?
However I won't be at all surprised if it turns out that the aircraft had been hired and the pilot was volunteering -- flying for fun, as at any gliding club with a tug or at a jump club. Perfectly legal.
Flying into sev icing at night over water, however, was never going to end well. By all accounts the pilot didn't have the rating to fly IFR in Class A airways, safely above the weather. His other option would be to stay below the freezing level (about 3,000 ft that night); that would have been... Bold.
However I won't be at all surprised if it turns out that the aircraft had been hired and the pilot was volunteering -- flying for fun, as at any gliding club with a tug or at a jump club. Perfectly legal.
Flying into sev icing at night over water, however, was never going to end well. By all accounts the pilot didn't have the rating to fly IFR in Class A airways, safely above the weather. His other option would be to stay below the freezing level (about 3,000 ft that night); that would have been... Bold.
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Apologies.
I wasn't aware there were so many low hours pilots advertising their services on Wingly in UK.
Where I am based, this activity is nonexistent.
I looked for flight offers from a small UK aerodrome I am familiar with and found 9 pilots advertising flights.
None with more than 350 flight hours, 2 with less than 100 hours, 1 with 14 hours on type.
Scary.
Anyhow, this is unrelated to the accident.
I wasn't aware there were so many low hours pilots advertising their services on Wingly in UK.
Where I am based, this activity is nonexistent.
I looked for flight offers from a small UK aerodrome I am familiar with and found 9 pilots advertising flights.
None with more than 350 flight hours, 2 with less than 100 hours, 1 with 14 hours on type.
Scary.
Anyhow, this is unrelated to the accident.
Whatever it was that happened, it doesn't seem to have attracted the attention of the AAIB or the CAA.
