Cardiff City Footballer Feared Missing after aircraft disappeared near Channel Island
Grant Shapps, MP for Welwyn and Hatfield and owner of a Cirrus SR22 pushed hard for this situation via his "Red Tape Challenge" The red tape (and fees) for AOC's went up and an area of GA became the wild west. Well done Grant! you c@@t!
If it's in the US, report them to the FAA. Take screenshots of the posts. I know people who have their tickets pulled for **** like that. The FSDOs around where I am have absolutely zero tolerance for that sort of thing.
Cool Flourish has its registered address in Matlock. Fay Keely is company secretary and a director. Her address is given as being in Alfreton, which is 8 miles from Matlock.
On the website of Baker Consultants (based in Matlock) a Fay Keely is listed as part-time Finance Director. Her bio includes “I have a private pilots licence and have flown over the east coast of the UK seal watching”.
As I say, for what it’s worth, but it's a small piece in the jigsaw...
This flight was patently so stupid with so many blindingly obvious high risk factors - old plane, single engine, piston engine, night, winter, fairly poor weather, across extensive water, virtually unsurvivably cold water, poorly qualified pilot, inadequately competent pilot, single pilot. And no doubt more.
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Admittedly this aircraft comes/came under US jurisdiction, as did the license of the pilot, and a whole lot of questions need to be answered about what went on. But, cost sharing was based around friends flying together. Not commercial advertising for trips to the South of France, where the actual costs to the "cost sharer" are roughly the same as the cost of the whole trip, and such flights are advertised on the Wingly website today. And the French very sensibly banned Wingly flights at the outset, although I don't know the legal status of such flights in France now.
I challenge Mr Shapps to come on to PPRUNE and justify what I see as a gross reduction in the safety of the trailing public. If he reads my posts he'll know exactly who I am, I asked for such justification face to face in the past.
SND
Speculation is one thing but personally, I feel this thread is getting a bit free and easy with some peoples names who have not been mentioned in the investigation or indeed in the press.
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And then you get organisations like Wingly where 100 hour PPL's can advertise to take you flying on what are effectively A to A Commercial flights (sightseeing) without a commercial license, AOC or any other of the myriad checks and balances those of who provide aviation services as a living are subject too.
My Flight Ops Inspector was shamefaced when I asked him how he dare turn up and audit us when the CAA allow Wingly. Cost sharing and the Wingly principal have dropped standards of safety for people in ignorance of the rules. A couple of PPL's sharing a trip know the deal they are entering into, the man in the street be he dustman or premiership footballer have no real chance of knowing the truth.
Grant Shapps, MP for Welwyn and Hatfield and owner of a Cirrus SR22 pushed hard for this situation via his "Red Tape Challenge" The red tape (and fees) for AOC's went up and an area of GA became the wild west. Well done Grant! you c@@t!
SND
And then you get organisations like Wingly where 100 hour PPL's can advertise to take you flying on what are effectively A to A Commercial flights (sightseeing) without a commercial license, AOC or any other of the myriad checks and balances those of who provide aviation services as a living are subject too.
My Flight Ops Inspector was shamefaced when I asked him how he dare turn up and audit us when the CAA allow Wingly. Cost sharing and the Wingly principal have dropped standards of safety for people in ignorance of the rules. A couple of PPL's sharing a trip know the deal they are entering into, the man in the street be he dustman or premiership footballer have no real chance of knowing the truth.
Grant Shapps, MP for Welwyn and Hatfield and owner of a Cirrus SR22 pushed hard for this situation via his "Red Tape Challenge" The red tape (and fees) for AOC's went up and an area of GA became the wild west. Well done Grant! you c@@t!
SND
Wingly has given further cover to the illegal charter mob many of whom fly N REG machines. There is no oversight anywhere.
"Cost sharing" is now a new cottage industry (wingly, flyer on the pub notice board, Facebook etc) and it is sending a message that the next step up or down, i.e. "illegal charter", if you prefer, is ok - nobody is going to bother you. If you look at the Wingly website some of the prices on there are certainly money makers - I understand 6 seaters are selling well.
Unfortunately, AOCs are disappearing extremely fast - companies cannot complete with 100 hour PPLs who have to meet almost no regulatory requirements - when the next recession comes around and there are no airline jobs then there will be no levels below to fall back on. In addition, going forward, as we appear to be leaving EASA British licensed pilots will be as rare as ....... insert as required.
The regulator (joke), as they like to be known, has been well informed.
Hello!
Many of the answers we don't know yet, therefore much is based on assumption (e.g. from watching others perform similar flights) and "half-information" from the internet and newspapers.
1. We don't know anything for sure about that.
2. Obviously not. Any type of commercial flying would therefore have been illegal. Even with an (American) AOC, a commercial flight between European countries carrying European passengers would have required a heap of paperwork ("cabotage").
And even with an AOC, this kind of aircraft (single engine piston) would only have been allowed to do flights under visual flight rules (VFR). And even a single engine turbine (SET) aircraft operating legally under an AOC and carrying passengers would have had to observe minimum distances from alternate enroute airfields (to enable an engine-out gliding landing) which at their intended cruising altitude of 5000ft over the sea would not have been met. (This is a Europen regulation for SET commercial operation.)
3. If he was paid in any way for his flying he would have needed a CPL. But we do not know if he received imuneration. If he flew out of courtesy for his buddy who himself borrowed the plane to his soccer player buddy for gas money only then he would not have needed a CPL.
4. On a private flight it would not have mattered as long as the pilot and the aircraft hold the necessary qualification. Commercially it would not have been possible to do this under IFR (see point 2).
5. We don't know yet. But any penny changing hands that exceeds cost sharing would have made the whole thing illegal.
6. EU airspace has nothing do do with it I think.
Regards
Max
Many of the answers we don't know yet, therefore much is based on assumption (e.g. from watching others perform similar flights) and "half-information" from the internet and newspapers.
1. We don't know anything for sure about that.
2. Obviously not. Any type of commercial flying would therefore have been illegal. Even with an (American) AOC, a commercial flight between European countries carrying European passengers would have required a heap of paperwork ("cabotage").
And even with an AOC, this kind of aircraft (single engine piston) would only have been allowed to do flights under visual flight rules (VFR). And even a single engine turbine (SET) aircraft operating legally under an AOC and carrying passengers would have had to observe minimum distances from alternate enroute airfields (to enable an engine-out gliding landing) which at their intended cruising altitude of 5000ft over the sea would not have been met. (This is a Europen regulation for SET commercial operation.)
3. If he was paid in any way for his flying he would have needed a CPL. But we do not know if he received imuneration. If he flew out of courtesy for his buddy who himself borrowed the plane to his soccer player buddy for gas money only then he would not have needed a CPL.
4. On a private flight it would not have mattered as long as the pilot and the aircraft hold the necessary qualification. Commercially it would not have been possible to do this under IFR (see point 2).
5. We don't know yet. But any penny changing hands that exceeds cost sharing would have made the whole thing illegal.
6. EU airspace has nothing do do with it I think.
Regards
Max
Just a numbered other
Sir Niall! Well said.
I had had never heard of Wingly until this thread and was frankly amazed by it. Wild West indeed. As you say, the fine tooth comb rightly applied to any commercial operation for the safety of the public is totally circumvented by this lunacy.
A few few questions I haven’t seen answered are whether Sala was flown in the same aircraft to Nantes after signing on Saturday? If so did he have two pilots? DI and DH? If not how was DH going through security with them on Monday (if he did). Did he sensibly decline the mission only for DI to heroically ‘save the day’ by setting off on his own?
how old is DI? As a PPL of course it’s academic. But if a CPL the difference between 59 and 60 is crucial as he couldn’t operate commercially as a single pilot at 60.
I’d reckon that DI amassed the vast majority of whatever hours he had day VFR. He was totally out of his depth at night and in bad weather and icing conditions. His admitted ‘bit rusty’ comes nowhere near it!
More questions than answers. And those with the answers are keeping shtum. Probably with legal advice to.
I had had never heard of Wingly until this thread and was frankly amazed by it. Wild West indeed. As you say, the fine tooth comb rightly applied to any commercial operation for the safety of the public is totally circumvented by this lunacy.
A few few questions I haven’t seen answered are whether Sala was flown in the same aircraft to Nantes after signing on Saturday? If so did he have two pilots? DI and DH? If not how was DH going through security with them on Monday (if he did). Did he sensibly decline the mission only for DI to heroically ‘save the day’ by setting off on his own?
how old is DI? As a PPL of course it’s academic. But if a CPL the difference between 59 and 60 is crucial as he couldn’t operate commercially as a single pilot at 60.
I’d reckon that DI amassed the vast majority of whatever hours he had day VFR. He was totally out of his depth at night and in bad weather and icing conditions. His admitted ‘bit rusty’ comes nowhere near it!
More questions than answers. And those with the answers are keeping shtum. Probably with legal advice to.
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DH claims he hasn't been to Nantes for a year. The French authorities swear that a Flightplan was opened in his name and that his ID was used in the airport.
Perhaps all of the above is true, but then why was DI using DH's identity?
And why did he then change his mind once the flight was delayed until evening?
Perhaps all of the above is true, but then why was DI using DH's identity?
And why did he then change his mind once the flight was delayed until evening?
Last edited by dalgetty; 25th Jan 2019 at 19:00. Reason: inaccurate typing
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Well we know he was a plumber and gas repairer.
A check of his plumbing business (if I have the right one!) gives the Gas Safe register number as 195505
Check the Gas safe register gives his full initials as David A Ibbotson
Its also gives his full contact and address details which I shall not repeat on here but it matches the address given in the media generally.
I then check the UK's freebmd births marriage,deaths index to get his birth and that comes up in the search range of 1958 to 1960 with only one David A Ibbotson born in the UK and that entry is for the December quarter of 1959 in Cleethorpes meaning he was born in Oct, Nov or Dec of 1959.
The indexes at that time only gave the date to the nearest quarter: - you can't do this thing with common names like John smith as there are too many of them to differentiate the right one each quarter.
So there is most likely your answer....
Just a numbered other
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Just bringing this point up in relation to the low cruising altitude question.
When asked why this flight didn't show on the usual tracking sites, FR24 replied the the transponder was either not working or "old" equipment. I take this to mean it was Mode C and thus not eligible to enter the airways system in Europe as a Mode S transponder is mandated.
Having recently replaced my old Mode C unit with a new Class 1 Mode S device (at under £2000) I wonder why this upgrade had not be auctioned in this case?
When asked why this flight didn't show on the usual tracking sites, FR24 replied the the transponder was either not working or "old" equipment. I take this to mean it was Mode C and thus not eligible to enter the airways system in Europe as a Mode S transponder is mandated.
Having recently replaced my old Mode C unit with a new Class 1 Mode S device (at under £2000) I wonder why this upgrade had not be auctioned in this case?
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Well we know he was a plumber and gas repairer.
A check of his plumbing business (if I have the right one!) gives the Gas Safe register number as 195505
Check the Gas safe register gives his full initials as David A Ibbotson
Its also gives his full contact and address details which I shall not repeat on here but it matches the address given in the media generally.
I then check the UK's freebmd births marriage,deaths index to get his birth and that comes up in the search range of 1958 to 1960 with only one David A Ibbotson born in the UK and that entry is for the December quarter of 1959 in Cleethorpes meaning he was born in Oct, Nov or Dec of 1959.
The indexes at that time only gave the date to the nearest quarter: - you can't do this thing with common names like John smith as there are too many of them to differentiate the right one each quarter.
So there is most likely your answer....
A check of his plumbing business (if I have the right one!) gives the Gas Safe register number as 195505
Check the Gas safe register gives his full initials as David A Ibbotson
Its also gives his full contact and address details which I shall not repeat on here but it matches the address given in the media generally.
I then check the UK's freebmd births marriage,deaths index to get his birth and that comes up in the search range of 1958 to 1960 with only one David A Ibbotson born in the UK and that entry is for the December quarter of 1959 in Cleethorpes meaning he was born in Oct, Nov or Dec of 1959.
The indexes at that time only gave the date to the nearest quarter: - you can't do this thing with common names like John smith as there are too many of them to differentiate the right one each quarter.
So there is most likely your answer....
But if the Malibu had been a G-registered one, we wouldn't be having this discussion as the owner details would be in the public domain.
Instead, it's registered in the US in such a way as to obscure the beneficial owner's identity (even if that wasn't necessarily the main reason for doing so).
If it doesn't, then tracking it is considerably more difficult for FR24. Even if it does, it will only be tracked if you fly within line-of-sight of someone with a receiver that's feeding FR24 at that point in time.
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DH claims he hasn't been to Nantes for a year. The French authorities swear that a Flightplan was opened in his name and that his ID was used in the airport.
Perhaps all of the above is true, but then why was DI using DH's identity?
And why did he then change his mind once the flight was delayed until evening?
Perhaps all of the above is true, but then why was DI using DH's identity?
And why did he then change his mind once the flight was delayed until evening?
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There is no suggestion of this in the Ouest-France article previously linked to
"[Henderson]'s ID card was checked at Nantes airport on Monday January 21st, the day on which the aircraft departed, as were those of Emiliano Sala and David Ibbotson"
sa pièce d’identité a été contrôlée à l’aéroport de Nantes, lundi 21 janvier, le jour du départ de l’avion, au même titre que celles d’Emiliano Sala et David Ibbotson.
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Are you thinking that we should not be identifying the Director of Cool Flourish Ltd? I haven’t seen it but several people have seen her identified on a database together with the aircraft. I think it is an important part of the story to know how the aircraft was booked and whether it was booked by the client/pilot/3rd party and only the aircraft owner can say that and say if the pilot’s qualifications were checked?
very often, you might have a computer program and it has flight plans on it. You tend to keep old flight plans so that if you do the same flight or similar, its just a case of filling in a few details and times etc. You fill in a box with the name of the pilot. Maybe he just neglected to change it. Maybe it was a rush job at the time and he didn't notice. Maybe he asked DH to fill the FP in for him?? We don't know any of the real facts as yet so better not to speculate too much. Speculation is fair and reasonable if reigned in, but starting to say things like using another identity? Maybe not the right thing to be posting.