Cardiff City Footballer Feared Missing after aircraft disappeared near Channel Island
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To try and summarise so far...
What most likely happened to the Piper is that it iced up. At 5,000 ft, in a front with 7 C on the deck, it would have been flying with an OAT of about -5 C, peak icing. A request to descend to 2,300 ft would fit with that.
Under EASA regs single engine single pilot commercial ops at night or IMC are limited to turbines. As this was a SEP Malibu, the flight could not have been legal if what was in any sense legal. The pilot didn't have a full IR rating; if had have had one, the flight would have been safely conducted in Class A above FL150, above the icing layer. SEP over water isn't dangerous.
The only ways this flight could have been conducted legally would be if the cost was being shared, in this case 50/50 pilot/passenger, or if the pilot was not being paid at all. I don't think someone with a CCJ against them would have been able to afford the former, but that doesn't preclude the latter. Indeed I wouldn't be surprised if someone hired the Piper from the owner for the cost of the flight (fuel, fees etc), but the pilot was purely volunteering. That he was not qualified to undertake the flight safely (i.e. IFR, high in the airways) but did it anyway is poor airmanship. Yes he could have flown the whole trip below the freezing level, about 3,000 ft, but that would have been... bold.
What most likely happened to the Piper is that it iced up. At 5,000 ft, in a front with 7 C on the deck, it would have been flying with an OAT of about -5 C, peak icing. A request to descend to 2,300 ft would fit with that.
Under EASA regs single engine single pilot commercial ops at night or IMC are limited to turbines. As this was a SEP Malibu, the flight could not have been legal if what was in any sense legal. The pilot didn't have a full IR rating; if had have had one, the flight would have been safely conducted in Class A above FL150, above the icing layer. SEP over water isn't dangerous.
The only ways this flight could have been conducted legally would be if the cost was being shared, in this case 50/50 pilot/passenger, or if the pilot was not being paid at all. I don't think someone with a CCJ against them would have been able to afford the former, but that doesn't preclude the latter. Indeed I wouldn't be surprised if someone hired the Piper from the owner for the cost of the flight (fuel, fees etc), but the pilot was purely volunteering. That he was not qualified to undertake the flight safely (i.e. IFR, high in the airways) but did it anyway is poor airmanship. Yes he could have flown the whole trip below the freezing level, about 3,000 ft, but that would have been... bold.
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It’s the language being used “book”, “arrange”, “aircraft available” that suggests that this was some sort of commercial transaction. It is the unwillingness of anyone involved to say how the aircraft was booked/arranged. It is an aircraft that doesn’t have any identifiable owner/operator.
Last edited by runway30; 25th Jan 2019 at 14:08. Reason: Punctuation
It’s the language being used “book”, “arrange”, “aircraft available” that suggests that this was some sort of commercial transaction. It is the unwillingness of anyone involved to say how the aircraft was booked/arranged. It is an aircraft that doesn’t any identifiable owner/operator.
Make of this what you will. It's the Daily mail, but...
Daily Mail report
Daily Mail report
miliano Sala's doomed flight from Nantes to Cardiff was delayed by up to 10 hours forcing the plane to take off at night, MailOnline can reveal.Pilot David Ibbotson had expected to fly the single-engine Piper Malibu plane on the morning of Monday 21 January, crossing the English Channel in day-light hours.But the morning departure from Nantes-Atlantique Airport was cancelled and the flight took off at 7.15pm on Monday evening.
Officials have so far not explained why the flight was delayed.
In a further twist, the original flight plan named a different pilot for journey, who pulled out at the 11th hour, according to respected newspaper Ouest France.David Henderson's name was on a flight plan submitted to Nantes airport on Monday - the day of the journey - before it was cancelled and replaced with a second plan with David Ibbotson named as the pilot, officials have revealed.
Officials have so far not explained why the flight was delayed.
In a further twist, the original flight plan named a different pilot for journey, who pulled out at the 11th hour, according to respected newspaper Ouest France.David Henderson's name was on a flight plan submitted to Nantes airport on Monday - the day of the journey - before it was cancelled and replaced with a second plan with David Ibbotson named as the pilot, officials have revealed.
In the same article, he is reported as saying that he had not been to Nantes for at least a year.
Clearly both statements can't be simultaneously true.
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...flew this private, N-Reg, single-piston engined aircraft for McKay to transport footballers from A to B, occassionaly IFR, in EU airspace, one can rationally assume that payment was involved between the parties for services rendered. (...) In multiple respects this is simply illegal.
It is a private flight paid and organised by the aircraft operator.
If the pilot is FAA PPL (private pilot licence) with an FAA IR, it could still be legal (but on the edge) if the pilot is not paid and if the flight is organised by him and the footballers.
Some participation to the flight cost by the passengers is even possible in this configuration.
If the flight is paid by the passengers, it is illegal in the absence of an AOC (air operator's certificate).
The PA46 of the accident at hand was not fit for AOC operation (engine is not a turbine).
The AOC is held by the aircraft operator.
If the pilot does not hold the proper licence CPL + IR (or PPL + IR) then it is also illegal.
I don't have the complete meteorological picture (see partial info here: Cardiff City Footballer Feared Missing after aircraft disappeared near Channel Island)
but it seems that this type of the aircraft was fit to the task, if all de-icing equipment was serviceable.
The pilot could have flown above the weather at flight level 200 (20000 ft) and the de-icing boots and pads could have dealt with light and moderate icing on approach.
The chosen flight profile with a cruising altitude of 5000 ft (even below airway floor) is hard to understand.
I wonder if the pilot was very experienced in IFR flying in winter IMC conditions.
Last edited by Luc Lion; 25th Jan 2019 at 14:56.
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My friend as you know some words are used out of context by the unknowing. Once as aviators the height of our moral high ground is inversely proportional to the degree we knew Bloggs. It has been the same in all the recent helicopter fatals, the same in the airshow crash which everyone defended as nothing to see until it seems to be in court [which btw is a very sad day for all of us and I wish AH the best of luck]. My point being you can not be a little bit pregnant and it seems very unfair to pan the pilot of this PA46 over commercials when the very practice of "booking" and "arranging" a flight is deemed acceptable by authority via the variety of "flight sharing" apps as you will well know. Unless one books how else do you get a seat?
I am reminded of a jet charter into Aspen where the customers turned up late so that the arrival time would be in the dark, when the airport is closed. The HNW customer insisted that they absolutely had to be in Aspen. Unfortunately they hit an unlit hill on approach and missed the event.
Avoid imitations
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Aggh, I thought I was just getting a handle on all this... which part of this is "simpy illegal"?
Improper certification for an N-reg aicraft?
No AOC?
No CPL?
IFR as opposed to VFR?
Payment for services rendered?
EU airspace?
...?
It's understanding how this matrix fits together to constitute something dodgy that us poor trusting users need more clarity on.
Aside from "at night/bad weather/single-engine over water/poor cruise altitude decision" issues.
Improper certification for an N-reg aicraft?
No AOC?
No CPL?
IFR as opposed to VFR?
Payment for services rendered?
EU airspace?
...?
It's understanding how this matrix fits together to constitute something dodgy that us poor trusting users need more clarity on.
Aside from "at night/bad weather/single-engine over water/poor cruise altitude decision" issues.
https://www.britishhelicopterassocia...-Transport.pdf
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miliano Sala's doomed flight from Nantes to Cardiff was delayed by up to 10 hours forcing the plane to take off at night, MailOnline can reveal.Pilot David Ibbotson had expected to fly the single-engine Piper Malibu plane on the morning of Monday 21 January, crossing the English Channel in day-light hours.But the morning departure from Nantes-Atlantique Airport was cancelled and the flight took off at 7.15pm on Monday evening.
If that 'Dibbo' expected to fly the trip VFR-Day, many up to now known facts would come together.
Besides from the 'CPL needed?' part, his FAA PPL license may have been ok for the VFR-Day trip.
Now the big Q:
From all other rumors, was his competency, license, medical sufficient to do an IFR or IFR-like night flight?
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Pitts, absolutely agree that the public would use words in common use which could lead to confusion. I have tried very hard not to condemn the pilot because I am worried that the pilot will end up taking all the blame for this and whatever mistakes he has made that will not be fair. However I still believe that the flight sharing scenario is the most unlikely because why would a man, maybe struggling to pay the bills, take several days out of his life to go and sit in an airport hotel whilst subsidising a very wealthy footballer?
The fact that he had no IR is clearly a seperate legal issue altgother and in all honesty the dots all seem to line up as a dodgy charter gone horribly wrong.
Pitts, absolutely agree that the public would use words in common use which could lead to confusion. I have tried very hard not to condemn the pilot because I am worried that the pilot will end up taking all the blame for this and whatever mistakes he has made that will not be fair. However I still believe that the flight sharing scenario is the most unlikely because why would a man, maybe struggling to pay the bills, take several days out of his life to go and sit in an airport hotel whilst subsidising a very wealthy footballer?
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Hardly. I was plugged in on Luton Radar that evening when the phone line from Heathrow rang to ask if I was working N6645Y, it had disappeared off radar. We had been in the clear but later went out in fog. The last visibility Hill was given for Elstree was 800m with no instrument let down #gethomeitis. There were three fatal accidents that night.
Hill’s FAA IR had lapsed, so had his UK IMC rating; his UK PPL was still valid. The aeroplane’s US registration had been cancelled three years previously; it was unregistered and stateless.
Needless loss of life as will be this case.
Hill’s FAA IR had lapsed, so had his UK IMC rating; his UK PPL was still valid. The aeroplane’s US registration had been cancelled three years previously; it was unregistered and stateless.
Needless loss of life as will be this case.
One of them at Birmingham Airport..all others had diverted to EMA.. 3 killed..Pilot had heart probs and safety pilot was from the club.....
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Maintenance
No one on the thread has mentioned aircraft maintenance. Does anyone know who holds the maintenance records for the accident aircraft? Was the a/c signed off as serviceable before the accident flight? At Gamston, perhaps?
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@Eutychus,
back to your account of 2 flights in small piston engine to and from Jersey : you can only consider that you are transported by professional people if the aircraft operator holds an AOC.
The list of AOC holders in Jersey and Guernsey is here (page 32) : https://cidca.aero/CHttpHandler.ashx?id=115363&p=0
Under some conditions, air taxi UK AOC holders can also operate from the Channel Islands. The list is here: https://www.caa.co.uk/Commercial-ind...-Certificates/
Until recently (and but for a handful exceptions), air transport in IMC could only be performed with twin engine aircrafts.
See, for instance, the Beechcraft BE-90 for low profile operation,
Since 1 March 2017, EASA has issued a regulation that authorises IMC operation with single engine turbine aircraft (example: Cessna Caravan, Socata TBM, Pilatus PC12).
So you could come across AOC holders operating single engine turbine aircraft.
back to your account of 2 flights in small piston engine to and from Jersey : you can only consider that you are transported by professional people if the aircraft operator holds an AOC.
The list of AOC holders in Jersey and Guernsey is here (page 32) : https://cidca.aero/CHttpHandler.ashx?id=115363&p=0
Under some conditions, air taxi UK AOC holders can also operate from the Channel Islands. The list is here: https://www.caa.co.uk/Commercial-ind...-Certificates/
Until recently (and but for a handful exceptions), air transport in IMC could only be performed with twin engine aircrafts.
See, for instance, the Beechcraft BE-90 for low profile operation,
Since 1 March 2017, EASA has issued a regulation that authorises IMC operation with single engine turbine aircraft (example: Cessna Caravan, Socata TBM, Pilatus PC12).
So you could come across AOC holders operating single engine turbine aircraft.
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It's patently obvious this N-Registered aircraft was not a Part-135 charter operation
