Cardiff City Footballer Feared Missing after aircraft disappeared near Channel Island
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Unfortunately, there is nothing new about 'grey charters' which this one certainly was. There is nothing grey about them though. Want to fly someone or something in return for money?......get an AOC. It's that simple and entirely black or white. The regulation is there, but the policing isn't. We made the conscious decision to get out of the King Air charter market because we simply could compete with illegal charters, or bull**** 'private flights' where the passengers 'lease' the aircraft from the owner, then hire a pilot separately.....(Illegal charter dressed up to look like something else). Me and many others have highlighted this to the CAA on many occasions and yet they do very little about it. It's a shame to say that the lack of action by the authorities, (EASA and the national regulators) makes them complicit in this dreadful and entirely avoidable loss of life.
And don't kid yourselves that this is limited to small piston aircraft. It goes up into some very high end biz jets too. On private cat, the safety margins are completely eroded. No margins on RWY length required, no limits to crew duty hours, crew training is basic and falls way short of AOC standards and the whole process has hardly any regulatory oversight. It's a farce that is ripe for smart arses who revel in profiteering by ducking and diving around the regulations at the expense of best practice and safety of those on board that are ignorant to risks they are taking.
This poor footballer who knew nothing of the complex regulations concerning air charter simply wasn't protected by either the regulator or the industry. And a naïve pilot who wasn't protected from his own error of judgement.
And don't kid yourselves that this is limited to small piston aircraft. It goes up into some very high end biz jets too. On private cat, the safety margins are completely eroded. No margins on RWY length required, no limits to crew duty hours, crew training is basic and falls way short of AOC standards and the whole process has hardly any regulatory oversight. It's a farce that is ripe for smart arses who revel in profiteering by ducking and diving around the regulations at the expense of best practice and safety of those on board that are ignorant to risks they are taking.
This poor footballer who knew nothing of the complex regulations concerning air charter simply wasn't protected by either the regulator or the industry. And a naïve pilot who wasn't protected from his own error of judgement.
What is ironic is the total media silence on the two Brits that flew their aircraft into the Pyrenees recently and non stop cover on this one due to Celebrity.
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Unfortunately, you don't have to look to hard on Facebook to find PPL holders with aircraft offering to 'fly you anywhere'. My local area residents FB page has three pilots regularly posting (advertising) to fly you, none of which are locally based.
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Recently a Guernsey airtaxi service started up by a company called 'Waves'. They were clamped down on because they were essentially advertising & operating scheduled flights. They've now gone bust. They were using a single-engined plane There's also a seaplane service looking to start up. Plenty of stuff in the local media about both operations. I don't know what qualifications / regulations apply, but the 'Guernsey Air transport licensing board' may throw up some useful info if you can be bothered to google?
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The flight was arranged by McKay but?
It seems Mark McKay admitted to arranging the flight. However, he was not the agent of the passenger (at least not formally). Was Mark McKay acting as agent for Cardiff City or Nantes or was he effectively agent for Sala? Did he do something wrong by arranging the flight. Did the pilot do something wrong? Did the beneficial owners of the aircraft do something wrong? Are the beneficial owners protected from liability by virtue of the trust arrangement? Could the trustees be liable?
These are just some of the questions that will no doubt occupy lawyers and courts for some time.
On the basis of the information available I would not have elected to fly at night over water in marginal weather in a single piston engine aircraft. I suspect that many pilots and passengers would also have chosen not to fly. Sala was under pressure to be in Cardiff for training and perhaps that was the irrational factor that caused the choice to fly. It is a tragic story.
I cannot imagine the grief and regret of all concerned; in particular the families and friends of those missing. I hope that this tragedy will result in some changes to reduce the chances of this kind of incident from reoccurring. When in doubt, stay on the ground. I also hope that the authorities will resume the search for several days more, for the sake of the families. Hopes may be remote at this stage, but not absolutely impossible if there was a life-raft available. The lack of debris may suggest that the aircraft did not disintegrate on impact and has sunk largely intact. However, the safety of the SAR personnel must also be a factor in any decision.
These are just some of the questions that will no doubt occupy lawyers and courts for some time.
On the basis of the information available I would not have elected to fly at night over water in marginal weather in a single piston engine aircraft. I suspect that many pilots and passengers would also have chosen not to fly. Sala was under pressure to be in Cardiff for training and perhaps that was the irrational factor that caused the choice to fly. It is a tragic story.
I cannot imagine the grief and regret of all concerned; in particular the families and friends of those missing. I hope that this tragedy will result in some changes to reduce the chances of this kind of incident from reoccurring. When in doubt, stay on the ground. I also hope that the authorities will resume the search for several days more, for the sake of the families. Hopes may be remote at this stage, but not absolutely impossible if there was a life-raft available. The lack of debris may suggest that the aircraft did not disintegrate on impact and has sunk largely intact. However, the safety of the SAR personnel must also be a factor in any decision.
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According to the Daily Mail, Wingly have confirmed the flight was not booked through them - https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...11th-hour.html
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I suspect there are a number of people who have substantial responsibility for this reckless flight that should never have happened. Whoever actually suggested and promoted this flight to Sala has the most responsibility. I suspect Sala was a young guy wishing to please in a new environment at Cardiff with minimal knowledge of general aviation. He would probably have just trusted those that recommended this flight and crossed his fingers. We all know questioning such suggestions can be seen as insulting and can be awkward to do - certainly to press doubts very far. This flight was patently so stupid with so many blindingly obvious high risk factors - old plane, single engine, piston engine, night, winter, fairly poor weather, across extensive water, virtually unsurvivably cold water, poorly qualified pilot, inadequately competent pilot, single pilot. And no doubt more. Whoever was the de facto owner/controlling mind of this plane must surely have known of the proposed flight. And should have said it was not suitable and stopped it. Anyone introducing the flight to Sala should not have done so without either having sufficient knowledge or asking someone that did have. Fail again. And the pilot should have had far more responsibility and said the risk factors were far too high to be inflicted on an unwitting, vulnerable passenger. And not accepted the flight. I find it hard to believe Cardiff FC have no responsibility either - they should have delved into Sala's travel arrangements more than they did and taken some advice. Which could have been as simple as Googling "Cardiff aircraft charter" which would have brought up local Dragon Fly amongst others, and simply called them for advice, even if they had no interest in chartering a private jet. Had they sought such advice, Sala would surely not have been in the fateful flight.
Clearly there were significant motivating factors for poor Sala to end up on a totally obviously inappropriate flight which cost him his life. No doubt these will come out in the investigation.
Clearly there were significant motivating factors for poor Sala to end up on a totally obviously inappropriate flight which cost him his life. No doubt these will come out in the investigation.
It would be interesting to hear why he got so close to boarding the aircraft but changed his mind.
However Eutychus has provided ‘us’ (if I’ve understood him/her) with a view to a degree from the passenger viewpoint. When paying for a service there is a presumption that they are in receipt of a professionally run, appropriately administered and insured flight. A bit of this is caveat emptor, buyer beware, but I suggest the ‘pedestal’ that aviation sits on makes due diligence checks less likely, and as Eu asks, where does the layman start, and with what questions. You get in a taxi in the UK you can see a plate that identifies it as certified for hire and reward, you should also see the drivers Taxi ID too, (disregarding Uber etc). There’s nothing like that available to a passenger when boarding a light SEP, one crew, in sleet and heavy mist to fly UK to Holland to indicate they’ve chosen a ‘proper’ operation. They pax put their trust in us, the industry.
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I suspect there are a number of people who have substantial responsibility for this reckless flight that should never have happened. Whoever actually suggested and promoted this flight to Sala has the most responsibility. I suspect Sala was a young guy wishing to please in a new environment at Cardiff with minimal knowledge of general aviation. He would probably have just trusted those that recommended this flight and crossed his fingers.
We all know questioning such suggestions can be seen as insulting and can be awkward to do - certainly to press doubts very far. This flight was patently so stupid with so many blindingly obvious high risk factors - old plane, single engine, piston engine, night, winter, fairly poor weather, across extensive water, virtually unsurvivably cold water, poorly qualified pilot, inadequately competent pilot, single pilot. And no doubt more.
Looking at the available data from the time of departure, I would have departed as well, only difference I would have gone IFR high not low.
The weather was not too bad to abort in advance and the aircraft, if maintained well, quite capable for that mission.
Whoever was the de facto owner/controlling mind of this plane must surely have known of the proposed flight. And should have said it was not suitable and stopped it. Anyone introducing the flight to Sala should not have done so without either having sufficient knowledge or asking someone that did have. Fail again. And the pilot should have had far more responsibility and said the risk factors were far too high to be inflicted on an unwitting, vulnerable passenger. And not accepted the flight. I find it hard to believe Cardiff FC have no responsibility either - they should have delved into Sala's travel arrangements more than they did and taken some advice. Which could have been as simple as Googling "Cardiff aircraft charter" which would have brought up local Dragon Fly amongst others, and simply called them for advice, even if they had no interest in chartering a private jet. Had they sought such advice, Sala would surely not have been in the fateful flight.
Clearly there were significant motivating factors for poor Sala to end up on a totally obviously inappropriate flight which cost him his life. No doubt these will come out in the investigation.
Clearly there were significant motivating factors for poor Sala to end up on a totally obviously inappropriate flight which cost him his life. No doubt these will come out in the investigation.
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Hello!
What you write, jumpseater, is very true.
Every commercial operator must issue a ticket to every passenger, not only within the EU, but in every country that operates under basic ICAO standards. This must no longer necessarily be a piece of paper as in the old days, but can be electronic instead. And it must clearly point to the terms&conditions, the passenger rights and a few more things. Being issued such a ticket is often the only indication to a passenger that he is going to fly on a state-supervised commercial flight.
So even if my employer, manamegent, club or whoever else arranges the flight for me, I as passenger should always ask to see my ticket. That is actually the only thing one can do to verify that they booked me on a legitimate flight. Of course upon boarding one could ask the pilot to display the AOC (an officially stamped copy has to be carried on board all the time) and his license, but not many passengers even know about the existence of such documents,
Let's hope that this tragic accident increases the awareness of the general public towards these issues.
What you write, jumpseater, is very true.
So even if my employer, manamegent, club or whoever else arranges the flight for me, I as passenger should always ask to see my ticket. That is actually the only thing one can do to verify that they booked me on a legitimate flight. Of course upon boarding one could ask the pilot to display the AOC (an officially stamped copy has to be carried on board all the time) and his license, but not many passengers even know about the existence of such documents,
Let's hope that this tragic accident increases the awareness of the general public towards these issues.
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Every commercial operator must issue a ticket to every passenger, not only within the EU, but in every country that operates under basic ICAO standards. This must no longer necessarily be a piece of paper as in the old days, but can be electronic instead. And it must clearly point to the terms&conditions, the passenger rights and a few more things. Being issued such a ticket is often the only indication to a passenger that he is going to fly on a state-supervised commercial flight.
So even if my employer, manamegent, club or whoever else arranges the flight for me, I as passenger should always ask to see my ticket. That is actually the only thing one can do to verify that they booked me on a legitimate flight. Of course upon boarding one could ask the pilot to display the AOC (an officially stamped copy has to be carried on board all the time) and his license, but not many passengers even know about the existence of such documents,
Let's hope that this tragic accident increases the awareness of the general public towards these issues.
So even if my employer, manamegent, club or whoever else arranges the flight for me, I as passenger should always ask to see my ticket. That is actually the only thing one can do to verify that they booked me on a legitimate flight. Of course upon boarding one could ask the pilot to display the AOC (an officially stamped copy has to be carried on board all the time) and his license, but not many passengers even know about the existence of such documents,
Let's hope that this tragic accident increases the awareness of the general public towards these issues.
PDR
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We know that the pilot was Dave Ibbotson and it is reported he has a PPL and more than likely should not have been flying the footballer.RIP. The Pilot that appeared in the BBC video 'My life as a ferry pilot' and shows the a/c N264DB is David Henderson who was passport checked to also fly th plane back to Cardiff. Why did he not get on the plane ?
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Passenger perspective
Every passenger places their trust in the pilots and the the machinery as a necessary part of flying. However, many passengers are frequent flyers or have pilot experience. Rational concerns and doubts should not be disregarded by pilots or passengers. I frequently fly as a passenger in small aircraft (several times a week). I avoid flying in marginal conditions and tend to check the weather particularly when flying with family. Probably I am overly cautious and do not represent the majority of the flying public.
As an example, I chose to take a short 20 min flight under marginal conditions because I had doctor's appointment. As it turned out, the flight took 1hr and 20mins because there was severe weather over all available airports and I missed my appointment anyway. There were no alternates within range and the only other option was to ditch. In hindsight I would not have taken the flight. The only choice was to land in dangerous conditions without much fuel left. I wanted to make my doctor's appointment and the pilots wanted to make their schedule. In hindsight I think that we would have all waited until the thunderstorm activity had subsided. It was an unnecessary risk.
I definitely would have not allowed my family to have flown on that flight. Luck was on our side that day, but the risk could have been avoided by ignoring the urges to fly. We must recognize that the urges to get to were you are going sometimes cloud judgment. I suspect that it may be possible to improve regulations to avoid some of those risks and make the decision not to fly more objective. Inevitably the flight crew has the greatest responsibility to avoid unnecessary risks.
It seems that the choice to fly Sala was questionable at the very best. No doubt there will be many factors taken into consideration in the investigation.
As an example, I chose to take a short 20 min flight under marginal conditions because I had doctor's appointment. As it turned out, the flight took 1hr and 20mins because there was severe weather over all available airports and I missed my appointment anyway. There were no alternates within range and the only other option was to ditch. In hindsight I would not have taken the flight. The only choice was to land in dangerous conditions without much fuel left. I wanted to make my doctor's appointment and the pilots wanted to make their schedule. In hindsight I think that we would have all waited until the thunderstorm activity had subsided. It was an unnecessary risk.
I definitely would have not allowed my family to have flown on that flight. Luck was on our side that day, but the risk could have been avoided by ignoring the urges to fly. We must recognize that the urges to get to were you are going sometimes cloud judgment. I suspect that it may be possible to improve regulations to avoid some of those risks and make the decision not to fly more objective. Inevitably the flight crew has the greatest responsibility to avoid unnecessary risks.
It seems that the choice to fly Sala was questionable at the very best. No doubt there will be many factors taken into consideration in the investigation.
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Well Dave Henderson for one could help if he wanted to. He has flown this aircraft for the McKays, that has been confirmed by them. He must know who the owner is because he did a very public interview from the aircraft.
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From the X-Files
Emiliano Sala search called off for the day as authorities find no trace of missing plane. The search began in the English Channel around the island on Tuesday and went on for two days before getting called off on Thursday. Guernsey Police tweeted: "After an intensive search using multiple aircraft and one lifeboat over the last nine hours, we have found no trace of the missing plane."
The aircraft, passenger and crew are therefore missing until physical evidence emerges to otherwise determine their exact whereabouts. Whilst the known facts, weather conditions, aircraft type, passenger, pilot etc. have been debated across this thread, there are historic references to unexplained sightings of 'unidentified flying objects' in the Channel Islands area filed by commercial pilots, in particular in and around the last known position of N264DB before vanishing from Jersey radar. If you're interested in reading the reports etc. (which appear to be credible) search Wikipedia 'Alderney UFO sighting'.
The aircraft, passenger and crew are therefore missing until physical evidence emerges to otherwise determine their exact whereabouts. Whilst the known facts, weather conditions, aircraft type, passenger, pilot etc. have been debated across this thread, there are historic references to unexplained sightings of 'unidentified flying objects' in the Channel Islands area filed by commercial pilots, in particular in and around the last known position of N264DB before vanishing from Jersey radar. If you're interested in reading the reports etc. (which appear to be credible) search Wikipedia 'Alderney UFO sighting'.
A lot of moving parts but which bit is causing people to throw their arms up in horror? Yes you can pick a route through the regulations about the complex nature [with reference to rating] of the aircraft, its N registration, the PPL and cost sharing flights. Yet that seems more effect than cause of the accident.
Many sat in the peanut gallery have been waiting for the potential to say "I told you so" about this type of flight yet very recently the CAA clarified amongst other things that advertising the availability of such flights were not a problem. So I say again whilst we may discuss many points the revenue streams seem a moot point as far as it relates to the aircraft ending in the sea.
As to awareness one might struggle to understand how anyone might think that arranging ones international travel via a facebook page without any other due diligence [making a huge assumption that this is what happened here] then I think you get what you pay for, or perhaps not in this case. For other premiership football players I would highlight that companies such as NetJets exist for your private flying needs.
Many sat in the peanut gallery have been waiting for the potential to say "I told you so" about this type of flight yet very recently the CAA clarified amongst other things that advertising the availability of such flights were not a problem. So I say again whilst we may discuss many points the revenue streams seem a moot point as far as it relates to the aircraft ending in the sea.
As to awareness one might struggle to understand how anyone might think that arranging ones international travel via a facebook page without any other due diligence [making a huge assumption that this is what happened here] then I think you get what you pay for, or perhaps not in this case. For other premiership football players I would highlight that companies such as NetJets exist for your private flying needs.
the second pilot has been named on the internet as Dave Henderson, indeed for a time the media posted him as missing with the aircraft. However, Dave has unequivocally stated that he was not there.
It would be interesting to hear why he got so close to boarding the aircraft but changed his mind.
