Cardiff City Footballer Feared Missing after aircraft disappeared near Channel Island
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Indeed, so far there doesn't appear to be anything at all text-book about this incident.
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We are back in the familiar territory of an aircraft evaporating without trace.
This time, the area is in the middle of Europe. Tomnod is dead and the RAF have Reapers in Lincolnshire which are still in Lincolnshire (or maybe the Middle East, of course). This is an organisational mess. This should not be happening.
This time, the area is in the middle of Europe. Tomnod is dead and the RAF have Reapers in Lincolnshire which are still in Lincolnshire (or maybe the Middle East, of course). This is an organisational mess. This should not be happening.
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We are back in the familiar territory of an aircraft evaporating without trace.
This time, the area is in the middle of Europe. Tomnod is dead and the RAF have Reapers in Lincolnshire which are still in Lincolnshire (or maybe the Middle East, of course). This is an organisational mess. This should not be happening.
This time, the area is in the middle of Europe. Tomnod is dead and the RAF have Reapers in Lincolnshire which are still in Lincolnshire (or maybe the Middle East, of course). This is an organisational mess. This should not be happening.
I agree is should have had something like a Pilot Aware or Mode S transponder onboard which would have helped but it is all cost and no regs currently requiring them to. Plus at the end of the day, the aircraft would still be underwater.
Next caller...
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I appreciate this is a judgement call. From my personal humble SLF perspective hopping between France and the Channel Islands on SE planes in daytime in mild, calm weather during which some land is always in sight appears acceptably safe - not least because the practice is widespread.
What this discussion is teaching me is that beneath this simple perception lies a veritable thicket for us SLF of poorly perceived relative risks, poorly understood qualifications/licences/certifications/insurance cover, and very unclear arrangements regarding paying passengers depending on whether charter is spelled with a small c or a big C. All of which, apart from loss of life, has the potential to go pear-shaped very quickly if a passenger is valuable in some way in addition to their intrinsic value as a human being, as is the case in this incident.
So, without naming and shaming, what are all those single-engine aircraft with part-time pilots operating out of Guernsey and Jersey with various paying passengers hopping in and out of the back doing all day and why? Do regular CI GA pilots agree with the above assessment?
So, without naming and shaming, what are all those single-engine aircraft with part-time pilots operating out of Guernsey and Jersey with various paying passengers hopping in and out of the back doing all day and why? Do regular CI GA pilots agree with the above assessment?
You don't necessarily need two pilots. A decent airplane, a qualified/rated/experienced pilot and proper procedures in place. Lets not go down the route that single pilot ops are inherently dangerous.
Multi engine for the correct conditions?. Two crew for the correct conditions?. I know many pilots who fly single pilot regularly all over the place quite safely. Some of them have even flown in and out of the Channel Islands on charters. Hard to believe, I know, but it's true. Non of them crashed either.
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Um, so, should I have been avoiding the Aurigny Trislanders? (I always found it rather touching that the reverse of the safety sheet bore a diagram of the aircraft controls, as though one was supposed to clamber over the seats and take over in the event of pilot incapacitation...)
That's not what I said. I said it was my admittedly SLF perception as regards the safety of passengers.The reason being that as pax we were issued safety harnesses, the pilot made sure we had properly attached them and understood their use, gently insisted their spouse wore one too despite protestations, and generally seemed to be paying due care and attention. The G-reg pilot legged it to the plane amid oncoming fog and (again to my untrained eye) took off in a tearing hurry, no flotation device or explanation of any kind.
The regulatory side of things is what I'm trying to get my head around.
Excuse my ignorance again. Both the N-reg in the accident and the N-reg I flew in over the presumed accident site came from French airspace and were flying in CI airspace. Is this unusual? Would it be typical for non-US based pilots to have the appropriate FAA privileges in this part of the world, or does nobody look at the paperwork too closely (again, it seems to me there are people flying around the CI like this all the time).
[sorry, cross-post with @Edward Teach ]
That's not what I said. I said it was my admittedly SLF perception as regards the safety of passengers.The reason being that as pax we were issued safety harnesses, the pilot made sure we had properly attached them and understood their use, gently insisted their spouse wore one too despite protestations, and generally seemed to be paying due care and attention. The G-reg pilot legged it to the plane amid oncoming fog and (again to my untrained eye) took off in a tearing hurry, no flotation device or explanation of any kind.
The regulatory side of things is what I'm trying to get my head around.
Excuse my ignorance again. Both the N-reg in the accident and the N-reg I flew in over the presumed accident site came from French airspace and were flying in CI airspace. Is this unusual? Would it be typical for non-US based pilots to have the appropriate FAA privileges in this part of the world, or does nobody look at the paperwork too closely (again, it seems to me there are people flying around the CI like this all the time).
[sorry, cross-post with @Edward Teach ]
Ugh, you wouldn't get me into a helicopter unless there was a really good reason. Not enough redundancy.
I appreciate this is a judgement call. From my personal humble SLF perspective hopping between France and the Channel Islands on SE planes in daytime in mild, calm weather during which some land is always in sight appears acceptably safe - not least because the practice is widespread.
What this discussion is teaching me is that beneath this simple perception lies a veritable thicket for us SLF of poorly perceived relative risks, poorly understood qualifications/licences/certifications/insurance cover, and very unclear arrangements regarding paying passengers depending on whether charter is spelled with a small c or a big C. All of which, apart from loss of life, has the potential to go pear-shaped very quickly if a passenger is valuable in some way in addition to their intrinsic value as a human being, as is the case in this incident.
I appreciate this is a judgement call. From my personal humble SLF perspective hopping between France and the Channel Islands on SE planes in daytime in mild, calm weather during which some land is always in sight appears acceptably safe - not least because the practice is widespread.
What this discussion is teaching me is that beneath this simple perception lies a veritable thicket for us SLF of poorly perceived relative risks, poorly understood qualifications/licences/certifications/insurance cover, and very unclear arrangements regarding paying passengers depending on whether charter is spelled with a small c or a big C. All of which, apart from loss of life, has the potential to go pear-shaped very quickly if a passenger is valuable in some way in addition to their intrinsic value as a human being, as is the case in this incident.
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I'm fairly sure VSKP was maintained correctly and being flown within the correct flight envelope! As was LN-OJF, G-REDL and G-TIGK.
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Its up to the pilot to keep their licences and ratings current, its their licence and nobody else’s responsibly. Also if you are going to fly the bloody thing that’s you’re responsibility as well. The two you mention were accidents waiting to happen, both had scant regard for the system.
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So in due course we will know if there was anything illegal about this flight, but I doubt we'll ever know what was the sequence of events prior or after the flight into icing conditions I wonder how hard and expensive it would be to have flight data recorders installed in single engine GA planes, when they are fitted out with (part) electronic cockpits, possibly with a locating beacon. We would get so many more valuable lessons. The current FDRs are probably too expensive, but it may become cheaper with the current technology?
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So, without naming and shaming, what are all those single-engine aircraft with part-time pilots operating out of Guernsey and Jersey with various paying passengers hopping in and out of the back doing all day and why? Do regular CI GA pilots agree with the above assessment?
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Its up to the pilot to keep their licences and ratings current, its their licence and nobody else’s responsibly. Also if you are going to fly the bloody thing that’s you’re responsibility as well. The two you mention were accidents waiting to happen, both had scant regard for the system.
Graham Hill was a High Risk character but I think he was quite cautious in his flying, after his accident there were a lot of well known names who were shocked that he died in a plane crash because he was such a careful pilot.
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So in due course we will know if there was anything illegal about this flight, but I doubt we'll ever know what was the sequence of events prior or after the flight into icing conditions I wonder how hard and expensive it would be to have flight data recorders installed in single engine GA planes, when they are fitted out with (part) electronic cockpits, possibly with a locating beacon. We would get so many more valuable lessons. The current FDRs are probably too expensive, but it may become cheaper with the current technology?
I equipped my aircraft with an automatic digital CVR when I renewed the audio panel and it was a £20 investment. The crucial point for FDR is not the recording, that could be done by the same £20 device. The point will be getting the sensors into the aircraft. Given the EAA initiatives in the US, I believe they could do it fast. Given our National Aviation Agencies and their political shark basin together with EASA, it may take us 10 years.
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So reading the CI SAR report there, its fairly obvious i would say that the plane probably ditched and has sunk and is now sitting at the bottom of the channel somewhere, depth ranges around there from 10 metres to 48 metres deep
I am now retired, but with over 16,000 hours and 38 years flying helicopters, both single and twin engined, in various roles, including the North Sea and the Middle East, having suffered no major problems during my career.
I am not trying to get into a p*ssing contest here, but I do find your comment somewhat flippant.
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Graham Hill was a High Risk character but I think he was quite cautious in his flying, after his accident there were a lot of well known names who were shocked that he died in a plane crash because he was such a careful pilot.