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Cardiff City Footballer Feared Missing after aircraft disappeared near Channel Island

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Cardiff City Footballer Feared Missing after aircraft disappeared near Channel Island

Old 14th Aug 2019, 17:06
  #1941 (permalink)  
 
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Did the footballer not text something indicating that all seemed not well? if so could this have been the result of a partially incapacitated pilot?
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Old 14th Aug 2019, 17:14
  #1942 (permalink)  
 
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A shocking development. And one that would have remained unknown had one of the victims not been recovered.
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Old 14th Aug 2019, 18:11
  #1943 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by runway30 View Post
If the illegal act wasn’t the cause of death then that gets him off the hook
An interesting alternative perspective. Inappropriate qualifications disregarded, due to tech malfunction? The Lawyers will enjoy playing that game.
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Old 14th Aug 2019, 18:20
  #1944 (permalink)  
 
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Very nearly 100 pages of this thread and no-one saw that coming.

Goes to show; speculation is futile.

Go on the known facts for cause.
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Old 14th Aug 2019, 19:45
  #1945 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by atakacs View Post

what other explanation do you have for that high carbon dioxide?
Three words; "In flight event".
I meant I wanted him to cite evidence that the aircraft wasn't maintained properly - as he stated.

Manifolds have blown in flight - leaking CO in to cockpit - not as a result of lack of maintenance, other events have occurred - in flight - to precipitate CO emissions in cockpit, etc.

It's a fool-hardy comment that feeds the bloody media that are watching this thread looking for any tit-bits to report. It's irresponsible, dis-respectful and downright un-professional.

Like I said earlier - let's go on the facts.
Advice, seemingly somewhat wasted on this thread.
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Old 14th Aug 2019, 19:49
  #1946 (permalink)  
 
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Icing was considered earlier in this thread. Now that CO poisoning has emerged, it follows that a failure in the alternate air supply may have been involved. There was an AD in Feb 2009 on the alternate air control linkage. I cannot conceive any other circumstance other than alt air selection which in such a short period of time may have led to cabin air contamination so as to prevent action such as actuating the cabin dump, switch and pull the cabin pressurisation control out, turn on vent fan and turn off cabin air recirculation fan.
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Old 14th Aug 2019, 19:57
  #1947 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by MPN11 View Post

Perfect storm, I would say. Under-qualified pilot affected by CO = doomed.
CO pooisioning may affect even the best quailifed pilot as its effects are insidious in onset.
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Old 14th Aug 2019, 20:17
  #1948 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Auxtank View Post
Very nearly 100 pages of this thread and no-one saw that coming.

Goes to show; speculation is futile.

Go on the known facts for cause.
Not on this forum, but a friend of mine actually did suggest pilot incapacitation, very early on. He is very experienced on this type (and the jetprop version) and said it should have been capable of that flight, so something just didn't add up for him. Turns out he might have been right!!

ET
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Old 14th Aug 2019, 20:38
  #1949 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Chronus View Post
… so as to prevent action such as actuating the cabin dump, switch and pull the cabin pressurisation control out, turn on vent fan and turn off cabin air recirculation fan.
Do you think that a pilot with this amount of experience on type would be able to recognise the CO contamination and then perform all these as memory items ?
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Old 14th Aug 2019, 20:58
  #1950 (permalink)  
 
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"Well I'm happy to suggest that a properly-maintained aircraft is very unlikely to expose its pilot and passenger(s) to excessive carbon monoxide."
Agreed. But CO accidents are very infrequent.
What maintenance check detects a thin spot in an exhaust or a developing gasket fault?
I've had a few exhaust replacements and exhaust gasket leaks, but ALL were spotted AFTER the leakage had started, sometimes with detection in flight by engine noise or CO detector - spot black and detector (from B&Q) bleeping. Sometimes at check by soot stain.
But the leak was already there.
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Old 14th Aug 2019, 21:12
  #1951 (permalink)  
 
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Well this changes things. For all his faults re licensing etc, it seems the pilot's last moments may have been spent heroically trying to put the aircraft down in a controlled fashion knowing he was about to loose consciousness.....although we'll never know for sure.

I wonder why this information has only been disclosed now. I presume the CO concentration in the passenger's bloodstream was discovered during toxicology testing from the post mortem....i.e. 6 months ago.

Surely this information would have warranted the wreckage being recovered for examination....but 6 months of saltwater immersion won't exactly make finding the fault in the aircraft easy now.

I have the greatest respect for the AAIB, but I do wonder if budgetary considerations are having a negative impact on some if their investigations these days. It is now clear that wreckage should have been recovered at the time.
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Old 14th Aug 2019, 21:15
  #1952 (permalink)  
 
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I am currently doing the PPL, and very recently read in ground material about the possibility of fumes and/or CO entering the cockpit.

I had felt this was perhaps an exaggeration in the written material, after all, I can't ever recall ever seeing this before and was even further shocked to see this in the news today.

What do I need to do? I don't remember seeing carbon monoxide detector on the student required items for purchase list.....
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Old 14th Aug 2019, 21:21
  #1953 (permalink)  
 
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MPN11

The aircraft took off with an unqualified pilot in to IMC conditions flying a paying passenger ( someone paid ) there was no AoC in place. The flight was in a single engine piston over water at night and there was no legal way to make the flight under the rules of the state of registration....... and now we find out that it is very likely both the pilot and definitely passenger had enough CO inside them to incapacitate them at the very least.

Are you surprised that the maintenance is called into Question ? His whole sorry affaire seems to have left no rule unbroken from an operational point of view, perhaps its time to look at the maintenance as well.
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Old 14th Aug 2019, 21:22
  #1954 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by newfoundglory View Post
I am currently doing the PPL, and recently read in ground material about the possibility of fumes and/or CO entering the cockpit.

I had felt this was perhaps an exaggeration in the written material, after all, I can't ever recall ever seeing this before and was even further shocked to see this in the news today.

What do I need to do? I don't remember seeing carbon monoxide detector on the student required items for purchase list.....

Pooley's (as ever) is your friend when you're a rookie...and when you're a veteran.

https://www.pooleys.com/shop/categor...ide-detectors/

You know, a lot of this flying business...is down to you...your personal responsibility...

Given this Thread...that's a poignant comment...
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Old 14th Aug 2019, 21:24
  #1955 (permalink)  
 
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Two key aspects of this development no-one else seems to be commenting on:

1. Given Sala's body was recovered months ago, surely AAIB have know about this for a long time. If so, why only publish now?
2. Identification of wreckage and recovery of Sala's body was funded privately, not by AAIB, was it not? If so, and given significance of findings of toxicology tests, why did AAIB not arrange search? Of course, they were not to know this in advance, but they would know that identification of wreckage would increase the probability of identifying cause of accident, which is their role.

Taking these points together, were AAIB asleep on the job?

KP
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Old 14th Aug 2019, 21:24
  #1956 (permalink)  
 
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Auxtank may recall Emiliano Sala’s own voice message in which he said he was scared and that it seemed as if the plane was falling apart - and that was before take off
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Old 14th Aug 2019, 21:25
  #1957 (permalink)  
 
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Daily Mail Exclusive...

A doomed plane which leaked carbon monoxide poisoning footballer Emiliano Sala and his pilot before crashing into the sea had previously been so riddled with faults that an engineer refused to repair it, saying: 'It was not fit to be flown.'
Airfield owner Humphrey Penney revealed the craft had 'a lot of problems' and regular pilot David Henderson was 'unhappy with the maintenance.'
Mr Penney, who is also a licensed engineer, was asked to give a second opinion on the stricken Piper PA-46 Malibu in summer last year.
He spoke out for the first time following today's interim report published by the UK Air Accidents Investigation Branch which showed that 28-year-old Argentinian striker Sala and his pilot David Ibbotson were exposed to deadly levels of the toxic gas even before the private plane plunged into the English Channel.

Speaking exclusively to MailOnline, Mr Penney said: 'What happened it all so sad and tragic.
We had deep concerns about the plane when we looked it at a year ago.
We nearly took it on but didn't because there were so many problems with it.'Mr Henderson, originally thought to be the pilot who perished on the plane, had taken it to Sandtoft Airport in Belton, North Lincolnshire, on behalf of the owner chartered accountant Faye Kelly.
Sandtoft boss Mr Penney, recalling his examination of the plane, said: 'Christ, this is awful!
A lot needs doing.'
He added: 'The hydraulic motor was a shambles and the flaps, autopilot and de-icing system weren't working and there were several other problems.
Airfield owner Humphrey Penney (pictured) revealed the craft had 'a lot of problems' and regular pilot David Henderson was 'unhappy with the maintenance'
'There was a long list of things things that needed doing and it was going to cost an awful lot of money to put it right, in the region of £14,000 to £20,000.'
It was not in a fit state to be flown for a passenger but only in an emergency a short distance for maintenance and to get it fixed.'
The American craft registered to a Trust with a beneficial British owner, Ms Keely from Bonsall, Derbyshire - a pilot herself - had come to Mr Penney for a second expert opinion from Retford Gamston Airport in Gamston, Nottinghamshire, where it had been based long term.Mr Penney said: '
It was moved here for a relatively short period and we then sent it to another organisation for the recommended work to be done.
I can't comment on what work was later done.'
The plane was moved to nearby Sturgate Airfield in Gainsborough, Lincolnshire.
No one was available to comment today when approached by MailOnline.Mr Penney added:
'I cannot say if the maintenance was done thoroughly and properly and if it was all fixed but the plane would have had an annual inspection at the end of the year.
If all was good and dandy the plane should have flown safely.
'I know a very large bill for over £10,000 was presented to Faye.'Mr Penney, is now helping air investigators following the shocking crash on January 21 killing new £15 million Cardiff City striker Sala and married father Mr Ibbotson, 59, from Scunthorpe, Lincolnshire,
He told MailOnline he was 'a little surprised' by the bombshell report stating that the footballer had CO saturation levels of 58 per cent in his blood stream and the pilot was overcome by lethal fumes too, saying: 'I was not expecting that.
That is new information.
'He said that even the 'tiniest hole' in a plane's exhaust can cause a carbon monoxide leak, adding: 'One of the first things to go is the muffler, which goes over the exhaust system to warm the air coming into the craft.
Even the tiniest hole can cause carbon monoxide to pour through the exhaust and go into the cabin.
'Unfortunately, it will poison the pilot and any passenger.They will feel nauseous and drift off to sleep.
It affects people in different ways but there is no odour and it is deadly dangerous.'
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Old 14th Aug 2019, 21:37
  #1958 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by korrol View Post
Auxtank may recall Emiliano Sala’s own voice message in which he said he was scared and that it seemed as if the plane was falling apart - and that was before take off
That's typical of that aircraft type taxiing; everything shaking and vibrating. Nothing strange there when you're used to A320's.
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Old 14th Aug 2019, 21:40
  #1959 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by WHBM View Post
I think I was rather expecting readers here would understand it as a question about a suggested sequence to be performed at identification and before incapacitation.

Oh well ...
You're missing the point by a mile - there is no pilot identification of CO poisoning to self - just a gradual loss of SA, and then unconsciousness and then seizure followed by heart failure.
You don't get "Heads Up" clues along the way.
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Old 14th Aug 2019, 21:54
  #1960 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Nige321 View Post
Don't believe anything you read in the Daily Mail. Its not colloquially known as the "Daily Fail" for no reason. Absolute trash sensationalist "journalism" that has no interest whatsoever in facts. Why let facts get in the way of a good story!

They can't even get the name of the aircraft owner right, so do you believe anything else you read?
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