Cardiff City Footballer Feared Missing after aircraft disappeared near Channel Island
Join Date: Dec 2015
Location: Cambridge
Posts: 42
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
It appears he was an experienced parachute pilot.
https://www.grimsbytelegraph.co.uk/n...-named-2460307
It is understood Mr Ibbotson, had been hired along with the Norfolk-registered single engine plane, by Sala’s representatives to fly the player to Cardiff after he had said his farewells to team-mates at his old club Nantes.
Mr Ibbotson, who worked as a gas engineer based in Crowle, is believed to have had extensive experience carrying parachute enthusiasts on flights from private airfields.
One picture shows him him at the controls of a light aircraft in a selfie with a parachute jumper.
Mr Ibbotson, who worked as a gas engineer based in Crowle, is believed to have had extensive experience carrying parachute enthusiasts on flights from private airfields.
One picture shows him him at the controls of a light aircraft in a selfie with a parachute jumper.
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Do I come here often?
Posts: 898
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
"It is understood Mr Ibbotson, had been hired along with the Norfolk-registered single engine plane, by Sala’s representatives to fly the player to Cardiff after he had said his farewells to team-mates at his old club Nantes.
Mr Ibbotson, who worked as a gas engineer based in Crowle, is believed to have had extensive experience carrying parachute enthusiasts on flights from private airfields.
One picture shows him him at the controls of a light aircraft in a selfie with a parachute jumper."
Ideal chap to be flying a complex single at night, IFR in dodgy icing conditions. Sala's reps and the owner of the aircraft have some serious questions to answer if this is true. After 30 years as a professional pilot with all the checks you have to pass along the way I can't believe that such stupidity is still going on. And organisations like Wingly, Grant Shaps red tape challenge and the supine attitude of the CAA have done nothing to enhance safety.
I am so angry at the death of Mr Sala. Save a few quid, probably break any number of laws, kill someone. What a disgusting waste of life and talent.
SND
Mr Ibbotson, who worked as a gas engineer based in Crowle, is believed to have had extensive experience carrying parachute enthusiasts on flights from private airfields.
One picture shows him him at the controls of a light aircraft in a selfie with a parachute jumper."
Ideal chap to be flying a complex single at night, IFR in dodgy icing conditions. Sala's reps and the owner of the aircraft have some serious questions to answer if this is true. After 30 years as a professional pilot with all the checks you have to pass along the way I can't believe that such stupidity is still going on. And organisations like Wingly, Grant Shaps red tape challenge and the supine attitude of the CAA have done nothing to enhance safety.
I am so angry at the death of Mr Sala. Save a few quid, probably break any number of laws, kill someone. What a disgusting waste of life and talent.
SND
I am very sorry for the families involved but I dread to think where this is going to go.
Just put the fact that Mr Sala was a £15m signing to one side for a moment, I wonder who on this board would allow a loved one to fly across the channel in an unknown 35 year old single-engine piston a/c, in winter, at night with no mode c using the services of a part-time pilot?
Once again, the innocence and lack of knowledge of the non-flying public puts them at risk.
Just put the fact that Mr Sala was a £15m signing to one side for a moment, I wonder who on this board would allow a loved one to fly across the channel in an unknown 35 year old single-engine piston a/c, in winter, at night with no mode c using the services of a part-time pilot?
Once again, the innocence and lack of knowledge of the non-flying public puts them at risk.
Avoid imitations
Join Date: Nov 2000
Location: Wandering the FIR and cyberspace often at highly unsociable times
Posts: 14,573
Received 421 Likes
on
222 Posts
The more we read (if any or all of it can be believed) the more outrageous this situation seems. I'm getting angry, too, because this stinks.
And more of the story unfolds.
source https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/826101...dave-ibbotson/
Facebook posts shared before the flight departed on Monday night show Mr Ibbotson talking about being 'a bit rusty with the ILS (Instrument Landing System)'.
He tagged himself at Nantes Airport on Saturday before replying to comments about the flight on Sunday.
The pilot wrote: "Was not to (sic) bad when I got there but I'm a bit rusty with the ils, in France now."
A friend replied: "Rusty with the ILS?! I can't believe that!"
Mr Ibbotson added: "You wanna bet, a little on the high side hehe, better than on the low side."
Sala sent audio messages about the "bumpy ride" he was having as the plane hit bad weather near Guernsey on Monday.
It lost contact near the Casquets lighthouse and vanished at 2,300ft at 8.30pm.
Cardiff City chairman Mehmet Dalman said Sala had "made his own arrangements" to make the trip from Nantes, where he had played before agreeing his switch to the Premier League.
He tagged himself at Nantes Airport on Saturday before replying to comments about the flight on Sunday.
The pilot wrote: "Was not to (sic) bad when I got there but I'm a bit rusty with the ils, in France now."
A friend replied: "Rusty with the ILS?! I can't believe that!"
Mr Ibbotson added: "You wanna bet, a little on the high side hehe, better than on the low side."
Sala sent audio messages about the "bumpy ride" he was having as the plane hit bad weather near Guernsey on Monday.
It lost contact near the Casquets lighthouse and vanished at 2,300ft at 8.30pm.
Cardiff City chairman Mehmet Dalman said Sala had "made his own arrangements" to make the trip from Nantes, where he had played before agreeing his switch to the Premier League.
source https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/826101...dave-ibbotson/
Join Date: Nov 2017
Location: Amblesidel
Posts: 166
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Yet using the 'Wingly' principle, as long as this is a cost sharing and by that I mean the pilot contributes something towards the flight even though it is a few pounds, the UK CAA see this as legal. If it is hire and reward, then it is simply illegal. Flying for 'expenses', is another complex issue.
Join Date: Jan 2019
Location: United Kingdom
Posts: 17
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Someone floated the idea that maybe a more experienced pilot refused to fly so a replacement was found?
ShyTorque I also. I can't understand what would make anyone think a flight like that, at this time of year, would be a good idea?
ShyTorque I also. I can't understand what would make anyone think a flight like that, at this time of year, would be a good idea?
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: Belgium
Age: 64
Posts: 138
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I am still having problems.
How come a highly experienced pilot flies through a very well predicted snow storm, in a single, at night, over water. (we got the same front a few hrs later reaching the Belgium coast)
At 5000ft? In the middle of the predicted and actual icing zone.
While he can climb to safety with power and options to spare?
And on top of that? ? ?
Asks for a lower altitude?
With an undercooled and certainly partially iced over airframe going through predicted and actual snow?
I have done stupid things in my life, but this one is a hard one.
How come a highly experienced pilot flies through a very well predicted snow storm, in a single, at night, over water. (we got the same front a few hrs later reaching the Belgium coast)
At 5000ft? In the middle of the predicted and actual icing zone.
While he can climb to safety with power and options to spare?
And on top of that? ? ?
Asks for a lower altitude?
With an undercooled and certainly partially iced over airframe going through predicted and actual snow?
I have done stupid things in my life, but this one is a hard one.
I understand he was a para dropping pilot. Clearly by his own admission his instrument flying was “rusty”.
However the big question is how a £15 million football star found himself being flown by from Nantes to Cardiff by a gas engineer and part time pilot in a single piston engined aircraft at night.
However the big question is how a £15 million football star found himself being flown by from Nantes to Cardiff by a gas engineer and part time pilot in a single piston engined aircraft at night.
My uncle was a highly-experienced driver. He spent forty years driving a taxi in London without one mishap. Driving outside London on dual carriageways and motorways, he was a menace until his keys were taken away.
Parachuting pilots are very, very good pilots....at dropping parachutists over a regular drop zone on a regular basis.
Parachuting pilots are very, very good pilots....at dropping parachutists over a regular drop zone on a regular basis.
This brings back bad memories of another sad unnecessary loss of lives in a similar type of aircraft
Piper PA46 Malibu N186CB at Dunkeswell in November 15. On that occasion four souls were tragically lost.
Circumstances different but result tragically the same......
Piper PA46 Malibu N186CB at Dunkeswell in November 15. On that occasion four souls were tragically lost.
Circumstances different but result tragically the same......
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: Belgium
Age: 64
Posts: 138
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
@ runway30
There's no way to "ban/regulate" these unfortunate happenings.
Two other things come to mind;
a) About 1200 build and about 250 went down.
b) These long span but short cord wings are very efficient at altitude but not so good for ice.
What was that other aircraft that had the exact same issues with long span and short cord wings constantly icing over? ? The ATR if my mind is not letting me down. Most where finally sold to warmer climates.
If there is something to look into, it is the icing certification.
There's no way to "ban/regulate" these unfortunate happenings.
Two other things come to mind;
a) About 1200 build and about 250 went down.
b) These long span but short cord wings are very efficient at altitude but not so good for ice.
What was that other aircraft that had the exact same issues with long span and short cord wings constantly icing over? ? The ATR if my mind is not letting me down. Most where finally sold to warmer climates.
If there is something to look into, it is the icing certification.
Yet using the 'Wingly' principle, as long as this is a cost sharing and by that I mean the pilot contributes something towards the flight even though it is a few pounds, the UK CAA see this as legal.
I share the sense of outrage at this stupid loss of life. However, can you tell me what you would ban/regulate to stop it happening?
Without prejudice to this accident I always say a good yardstick is how you'd feel about next of kin being a passenger on a flight. If my son had called me on the phone and asked for advice about a flight such as this I would strongly warn against and advise him to hotac and go with a well known budget airline to Bristol and get a cab to Cardiff.
Also on this type of flight there is usually the human factor element of the pilot being under pressure to complete the mission. Non aviators often do not understand that flights sometimes have to be cancelled due weather etc. It's best to explain right from the onset that it might not go ahead and ask the passenger(s) what their plan B is. This primes them up if you have to cancel on the day.
Last edited by fireflybob; 23rd Jan 2019 at 14:43.
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Cardiff
Posts: 617
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
So a football agent involved in the deal says I’ll lend the lad my aircraft together with a pilot/gas engineer he uses occasionally. No money changes hands other than the money in the football deal. The pilot is legal to fly Nantes/Cardiff. Although reckless, the single engined aircraft is legal to fly over water on a winter night. Now tell me what you would change to stop this happening?
@ runway30
There's no way to "ban/regulate" these unfortunate happenings.
Two other things come to mind;
a) About 1200 build and about 250 went down.
b) These long span but short cord wings are very efficient at altitude but not so good for ice.
What was that other aircraft that had the exact same issues with long span and short cord wings constantly icing over? ? The ATR if my mind is not letting me down. Most where finally sold to warmer climates.
If there is something to look into, it is the icing certification.
There's no way to "ban/regulate" these unfortunate happenings.
Two other things come to mind;
a) About 1200 build and about 250 went down.
b) These long span but short cord wings are very efficient at altitude but not so good for ice.
What was that other aircraft that had the exact same issues with long span and short cord wings constantly icing over? ? The ATR if my mind is not letting me down. Most where finally sold to warmer climates.
If there is something to look into, it is the icing certification.
Join Date: Jan 2019
Location: United Kingdom
Posts: 17
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Search google for ORS4 No.1274. It won't let me post URLs.
There's no way to "ban/regulate" these unfortunate happenings.