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Cardiff City Footballer Feared Missing after aircraft disappeared near Channel Island

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Cardiff City Footballer Feared Missing after aircraft disappeared near Channel Island

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Old 27th Feb 2019, 14:33
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Even if that ILS were in France, where the IMC rating would not have been valid in any case!

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Old 27th Feb 2019, 15:01
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...furthermore he needed an IR on his FAA private which he didn't have. Nothing else would make his ILS into Nantes legal in an N reg.
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Old 27th Feb 2019, 15:35
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I guess the elephant in the room question is who was the person between the football agent and David Ibbotson being contacted and assigned to fly that sortie?

Did that person know his capabilities and limitations.

More importantly did they know the flight would be illegal?
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Old 27th Feb 2019, 15:40
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Thats not an elephant in the room - we have been told that was D Henderson
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Old 27th Feb 2019, 16:08
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With confirmation?

It is one thing to alledge but another to prove.

I have read newspaper reports that suggest the agent contacted David Henderson but can you prove he in turn assigned David Ibbotson?

The AAIB report suggests the aircraft was not registered with the FAA to carry out commercial flights.

Even if the pilot had an IMC did he also have a night rating?
N264DB was registered in the USA and could not be used for commercial operations without permission from the FAA and CAA. At the time of writing there was no evidence that such permission had been sought or granted.
To fly an aircraft registered in the USA between EASA Member States, a pilot must operate using the privileges of an FAA licence. This licence may be:
a. Issued based on the privileges of an existing EASA PPL. If the EASA PPL contains a night rating, the FAA PPL will have night flying privileges.
b. Issued by the FAA following the completion of an approved PPL course. The privileges of a licence gained in this way will include night flying.
Clearly the legal responsibility for the aircraft extend beyond just the pilot who happened to be flying it at the time of the accident.



Last edited by Mike Flynn; 27th Feb 2019 at 16:34.
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Old 27th Feb 2019, 16:19
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Sad to say that David Mearns's search for Dave Ibbotson has proved fruitless . Mr Mearns has reported this afternoon on Twitter :-
"Returning to Guernsey having completed this morning a thorough search of the Piper Malibu wreckage, 2 highly experienced technical divers spent 20 mins searching & filming the plane, sadly there was absolutely no sign of the pilot David Ibbotson."
"Today we also organised a helicopter from the UK with two pilots and two trained observers to fly over the the Channel Islands to conduct an aerial search of the CI and French coastlines that are inaccessible. Sadly that search for David Ibbotson's body was also negative."
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Old 27th Feb 2019, 16:59
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Originally Posted by Hipper
3. I've read the interim AAIB report and it says that 'at 1958 hrs, the controller asked the pilot to check if the aircraft’s altimeter pressure setting was correctly set to 1013 hPa, because the information on the radar indicated FL53. The pilot acknowledged and, shortly afterwards, the aircraft climbed to FL55'. I also notice wayward height movements of the aircraft as seen by radar in the last three minutes of flight.

If flying into foul weather can the pressure as seen by the aircraft vary enough to give wrong readings?
The reminder to the pilot to set 1013 could be seen as fairly sloppy cockpit procedures. When cleared to climb to a Flight Level a pilot would normally change the altimeter to 1013. The instruction "climb to flight level five five" has a full meaning of " Climb to five thousand five hundred feet with your altimeter set to 1013 mbs at a minimum rate of five hundred feet per minute and then maintain that level until cleared otherwise". Most ATC speak has official meanings far beyond the words spoken.

Originally Posted by Mike Flynn
Clearly the legal responsibility for the aircraft extend beyond just the pilot who happened to be flying it at the time of the accident.

Actually, probably not. As there was no Air Operators Certificate in force (nor could there be) and as a result no responsible officers, under British law the commander of the aircraft makes the decisions and takes the responsibility. A licenced engineer takes responsibility for the serviceability of the aircraft, but it is up to the commander to confirm this.

Aircraft commanders have awesome authority, but equally awesome responsibilities.

Probably the same in France and who knows with the Americans.
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Old 27th Feb 2019, 18:13
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The reminder to the pilot to set 1013 could be seen as fairly sloppy cockpit procedures.
The pressure setting on the altimeter has no effect on the Mode C readout. The Mode C reference uses a seperate capsule that is calibrated to 1013. Either the reference capsule is faulty or the pilot is flying inaccurately.
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Old 27th Feb 2019, 19:02
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The pressure setting on the altimeter has no effect on the Mode C readout. The Mode C reference uses a seperate capsule that is calibrated to 1013. Either the reference capsule is faulty or the pilot is flying inaccurately.
Or is flying perfectly accurately on the wrong pressure setting
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Old 27th Feb 2019, 20:05
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2Donkeys, Oggers, a pilot may legally fly an ILS approach under a VFR flight plan if the control allows it.
In VMC, of course.
The arrival to Nantes had been in VMC under a VFR flight plan
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Old 27th Feb 2019, 20:38
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Originally Posted by Luc Lion
2Donkeys, Oggers, a pilot may legally fly an ILS approach under a VFR flight plan if the control allows it.
In VMC, of course.
The arrival to Nantes had been in VMC under a VFR flight plan
Not in this case. No safety pilot, no legal. You cannot practice an ILS under VFR without a safety pilot.
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Old 27th Feb 2019, 21:16
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Originally Posted by Mike Flynn
I have it on good authority that David Ibbotson had an IMC rating.
tha was expired and being colour blind no night Rating so a bit of a moot point......
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Old 27th Feb 2019, 21:23
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Originally Posted by oggers
Not in this case. No safety pilot, no legal. You cannot practice an ILS under VFR without a safety pilot.
I find SERA a bit tricky to find my way around. Can you provide a reference?
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Old 27th Feb 2019, 22:58
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Originally Posted by Luc Lion
The arrival to Nantes had been in VMC under a VFR flight plan
Ignoring the legal aspects...

If under VFR in VMC... why do an ILS in the first place?!

If it's not what you're confident and comfortable with then why choose this approach for a bit of practice, especially when carrying a high value VIP asset (AAIB suggests he travelled to Nantes with Sala, so Sala would have been the passenger on that approach). Why stretch yourself in those circumstances?
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Old 27th Feb 2019, 23:02
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Nantes complain to Fifa that Cardiff have not paid Emiliano Sala fee (The Guardian) :
Nantes have complained to Fifa that Cardiff have not paid the first instalment of the £15m transfer fee for Emiliano Sala.

Nantes have demanded payment as agreed in the contract, whereas Cardiff have said they want to wait for the investigation into the crash to be completed.

Nantes’ lawyers wrote to Cardiff on 5 February asking for the first of three annual payments within 10 working days, a deadline extended last week until 26 February.

Having received no payment, Nantes carried out their threat to take the matter to Fifa’s dispute resolution chamber.
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Old 28th Feb 2019, 07:30
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The Pilot's family's private funded search this week has so far not found him - The weather window is closing again - high winds today near Portland so guess CI is also the same.
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Old 28th Feb 2019, 10:11
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Originally Posted by S-Works
tha was expired and being colour blind no night Rating so a bit of a moot point......
He had a Second Class medical with the only restriction being 'Must have available glasses for near vision.'
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Old 28th Feb 2019, 10:57
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Originally Posted by patowalker
He had a Second Class medical with the only restriction being 'Must have available glasses for near vision.'
and he had a U.K. licence Class 2 medical with a restriction on specifically preventing flight at nigh. A 61.75 based on his U.K. PPL. A second class FAA medical would not override that restriction. He was illegal to fly at night.
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Old 28th Feb 2019, 11:12
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Yes, we know that, but did he?
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Old 28th Feb 2019, 12:11
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Originally Posted by S-Works


and he had a U.K. licence Class 2 medical with a restriction on specifically preventing flight at nigh. A 61.75 based on his U.K. PPL. A second class FAA medical would not override that restriction. He was illegal to fly at night.
Which of course means despite all his VFR time his solo night flying experience would have been minimal.

If the pilot who passed him the job was aware of Dibbo’s limitations then surely he must shoulder some legal responsibility?

Last edited by Mike Flynn; 28th Feb 2019 at 12:25.
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