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Cardiff City Footballer Feared Missing after aircraft disappeared near Channel Island

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Cardiff City Footballer Feared Missing after aircraft disappeared near Channel Island

Old 28th Jan 2019, 17:25
  #781 (permalink)  
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Originally Posted by Mach Tuck View Post


Is night VFR permitted in France now?
of course it is . Do it all time.
as to the 5000ft , on a VFR flight plan you do not have to file the RFL, just write VFR and you can select the alt yourself, 5000 ft . Now above Jersey is class D , permeable to VFR with transponder , but it is Class A above FL80 . There it is IFR only.
I am still puzzled buy the flight plan specially since the Nantes airport spoke person clearly said on the first day the plan was IFR. but OK we'll soon see who is right.
If indeed he filed and flew VFR on that wx at night then it is truly unbelievable ! .
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Old 28th Jan 2019, 17:33
  #782 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Pilot DAR View Post
Ah, no. You can't track me when I ride my bicycle, you can't track me when I drive my car, so why would I allow you to track me when I fly my plane? I don't accept that cookie either!

If I am willing to be tracked, I'll turn on my SPOT, my transponder, file a flight plan, and tell people where I'm going - sometimes, I won't!
Yeah, right. Conspicuity is for wimps.
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Old 28th Jan 2019, 17:37
  #783 (permalink)  
 
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Correct me if I am wrong, but complex does not immediately in itself require a type rating? I fly an N Registered E400 which is a very similar aircraft in terms of capabilities, performance etc to a non turbine PA46...and there is no type rating required on mine. I have also on two occasions used flight sharing sites and accepted passengers when I was flying longer international legs and was more than happy to have some company en route. (Dons tin hat...) I do not have any commercial qualifications, nor do I aspire to. Simply a PPL & IR.
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Old 28th Jan 2019, 17:52
  #784 (permalink)  
 
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I think now is a moment to stop speculating, keep quiet and leave some time to the investigators. The public surfaced facts are already enough to hold breath.
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Old 28th Jan 2019, 17:56
  #785 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by runway30 View Post
I have to say that I am absolutely astonished that the Cardiff Manager has admitted to being flown by the pilot. I’d like to know the circumstances of that flight.
I think that would be interesting too. If for example those previous trips were CAVOK and hassle free, there’d be no warning flags.
However in the same context as Sala, why would the team manager know any more info regarding the legal admin details and qualifications of a chartered aircraft than his players? I think it highly likely he’d go to a associate/company with experience of ‘charters’ to arrange a suitable flight, and assume he was being provided with a safe/legal/expeditious/cost effective trip. We’ve seen in the thread from a customer of what may be similar flights, that that assumption is an easy step to take.
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Old 28th Jan 2019, 18:03
  #786 (permalink)  
 
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The exact wording used by Mr Warnock in his conference which isn't quite as definitive as reported by French media:

'.......Warnock made exactly the same journey as Sala when he returned from watching the striker play for Nantes. “I’d been on a couple of planes like that, but I think the ones I went on might have had two engines,” he said. “But I do think I had that pilot [Ibbotson], who I thought was a fabulous pilot. I just can’t comprehend it.....”
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Old 28th Jan 2019, 18:09
  #787 (permalink)  
 
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Human factor

Not sure what to make of this. There’s a big play on weather around the islands at the time of flight. He asked for a decent from 5000 to 2000. Now correct me if I’m wrong. Not being as experienced as some of you guys. Surely a bad decision to start. But a route of that length would have been in the upper levels? So would have been clear of most icing on route.
Also. There was no mayday made. This indicates something more than icing to me. Not to get a call out? Sorry if I’m sounding dim on this. I’m sure a correction will come shortly. Also was he adequately rated for the flight?
responses welcom.
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Old 28th Jan 2019, 18:10
  #788 (permalink)  
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and when you go missing, no-one will have a clue where you are.
I choose to always have someone (a responsible person, by the legal definition) know where I am, even in my plane. The difference is that I choose who knows where I am, not everyone knows where I am. When I select altitude on the Transponder, and having told my family, everyone who needs to know where I am, does. I don't like the idea that random computer users could track my private whereabouts.

I do agree though, that that is a privilege of private flying. Once the flight is in any way compensated, the passenger should be entitled to suitable tracking, as they have purchased a transportation service, with expectations of public assistance, should it be needed. The public emergency services (whom we pay by taxes) should be able to accomplish their role with reasonable efficiency, meaning more rescue than search. If you've kept your location private even to emergency services, you have surrendered efficient (or even any) rescue. A pilot has no right to put a passenger in that situation.
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Old 28th Jan 2019, 18:28
  #789 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Pilot DAR View Post
I choose to always have someone (a responsible person, by the legal definition) know where I am, even in my plane. The difference is that I choose who knows where I am, not everyone knows where I am. When I select altitude on the Transponder, and having told my family, everyone who needs to know where I am, does. I don't like the idea that random computer users could track my private whereabouts.

I do agree though, that that is a privilege of private flying. Once the flight is in any way compensated, the passenger should be entitled to suitable tracking, as they have purchased a transportation service, with expectations of public assistance, should it be needed. The public emergency services (whom we pay by taxes) should be able to accomplish their role with reasonable efficiency, meaning more rescue than search. If you've kept your location private even to emergency services, you have surrendered efficient (or even any) rescue. A pilot has no right to put a passenger in that situation.
That's a good summary of probably how a great deal of us feel about these Tracking Sites, etc.

But, how do you square that away with maintaning Electronic Conspicuity at all times to avoid risk of collision?

When I go sailing solo - yes, of course I give a loved one a rough ETA - "If I'm not alongside and texting you by 2200 hrs then put the balloon up" but flying - I think we need to inhabit the space we fly in for all to see - electronically - as far as we can with at least Mode S, and ADS-B, etc, etc. Why wouldn't we? Apart from cost - which I know is bloody expensive, but what price...?

How do you justify this Electronic Silence - unless you're thouroughly back country?

Not having a go - genuinely interested.
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Old 28th Jan 2019, 18:38
  #790 (permalink)  
 
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I do wonder on what basis the Cardiff City Manager can assess DI as a fabulous pilot.

What utter dribble some people speak.
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Old 28th Jan 2019, 18:41
  #791 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by MPN11 View Post
I do wonder on what basis the Cardiff City Manager can assess DI as a fabulous pilot.

What utter dribble some people speak.
Cheap is what he means........
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Old 28th Jan 2019, 18:42
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Originally Posted by brentford77 View Post
Correct me if I am wrong, but complex does not immediately in itself require a type rating? I fly an N Registered E400 which is a very similar aircraft in terms of capabilities, performance etc to a non turbine PA46...and there is no type rating required on mine. I have also on two occasions used flight sharing sites and accepted passengers when I was flying longer international legs and was more than happy to have some company en route. (Dons tin hat...) I do not have any commercial qualifications, nor do I aspire to. Simply a PPL & IR.
The PA46 310P is on the EASA list as requiring a specific type rating.
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Old 28th Jan 2019, 18:45
  #793 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by MPN11 View Post
I do wonder on what basis the Cardiff City Manager can assess DI as a fabulous pilot.

What utter dribble some people speak.
bit like me trying to assess a footballer and nearly as much dribble.

But seriously is this not the problem. The passenger just sees the outcome (land at destination) and has not idea how ‘good’ the operation was that got them there.
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Old 28th Jan 2019, 18:50
  #794 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by ChickenHouse View Post
I think now is a moment to stop speculating, keep quiet and leave some time to the investigators. The public surfaced facts are already enough to hold breath.
Before we go quiet it would be nice to know that someone other than the AAIB are investigating. The police will investigate an accidental/suspicious death but do the Guernsey Police have anything other than a missing person’s inquiry at the moment? Are the police even certain who has jurisdiction at the moment given the uncertainty over the crash location?
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Old 28th Jan 2019, 18:52
  #795 (permalink)  
 
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I do wonder on what basis the Cardiff City Manager can assess DI as a fabulous pilot.

What utter dribble some people speak.
Perhaps a little harsh on a non-aviator.

However, there is always the chance he may have confused his pilots........
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Old 28th Jan 2019, 18:52
  #796 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Daysleeper View Post
bit like me trying to assess a footballer and nearly as much dribble.

But seriously is this not the problem. The passenger just sees the outcome (land at destination) and has not idea how ‘good’ the operation was that got them there.
i guess a footballer has other things on his mind.

I would be reluctant to even consider a day VFR x-Channel hop in a SEP. We did once half-consider something from JER-UK ... and decided the risk was simply too great. BA, A-319, JER-LGW, even if it means the Red-Eye at 0705 before a longggg TATL ex-LHR later in the morning.
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Old 28th Jan 2019, 19:03
  #797 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Daysleeper View Post


bit like me trying to assess a footballer and nearly as much dribble.

But seriously is this not the problem. The passenger just sees the outcome (land at destination) and has not idea how ‘good’ the operation was that got them there.
If I was a Director of Cardiff City Football Club, every 12 months I would ask to see the Risk Register. In the Risk Register as a Risk should be Loss of Key Persons (Sporting and Management), then under Mitigation it should say that all travel will be undertaken with fully licensed organisations.
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Old 28th Jan 2019, 19:07
  #798 (permalink)  
 
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Trislander01 and/or jsypilot , would either of you care to comment on the kind of flights to and around the CI I've mentioned upthread?

I'm still wondering which regulatory/certification boxes my VFR-day flights as a passenger fit into (or don't). One, joining a UK-Guernsey flight at a specifically arranged stopover in France on an N-registered SEP, no common purpose, some sort of payment arranged by third party; the other, a Guernsey-France flight that was unmistakably a 'taxi' run, G-registered SEP, paid for in the same manner as the other flight by the same third party (my client). Is one of these 'greyer' than the other, and if so, why?

Can you confirm/deny that either or both of these flights with passengers paying something would be common practice in the CI and what the thinking there, if any, is about safety/risk/compliance issues? Is it an example of hoping that longstanding custom establishes a legal precedent?
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Old 28th Jan 2019, 19:09
  #799 (permalink)  
 
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runway30 wrote:
The PA46 310P is on the EASA list as requiring a specific type rating.
That is incorrect - from the 23 Jan 2019 edition of the EASA type rating and licence endorsement list flight crew:

Class rating SEP (land) for PA-46-310P (Malibu), PA-46-350P (Malibu Mirage), and PA-46R-350T (Malibu Matrix).

Difference levels for the PA-46R-350T (Malibu Matrix) have not been evaluated.

Differences training which is not further specified, was established by the JAA between the Piper PA-46-310P (Malibu)/PA-46-350P (Malibu Mirage) and the PA-46-500TP (Malibu Meridian) aircraft.
So for anyone who hasn't flown a PA-46-310P before, the only requirement is for 'variant familiarisation' - which doesn't even need to be with an instructor.
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Old 28th Jan 2019, 19:12
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Originally Posted by BEagle View Post
runway30 wrote:

That is incorrect - from the 23 Jan 2019 edition of the EASA type rating and licence endorsement list flight crew:



So for anyone who hasn't flown a PA-46-310P before, the only requirement is for 'variant familiarisation' - which doesn't even need to be with an instructor.
I stand corrected.
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