Cardiff City Footballer Feared Missing after aircraft disappeared near Channel Island
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Cardiff
Posts: 559
Never realised how that Wingly thing operated, but seeing that link above, the whole concept should be shut down.
And to think of the discussions there have been and fuss about what a trial flight might be.
Also how would insurance get on with the crash flight, are Cardiff city now £15m out of pocket, could cause the club to close.
This could be one of the most complex insurance and big payouts ever for one crash.
What if the players family go for all and sundry.
And to think of the discussions there have been and fuss about what a trial flight might be.
Also how would insurance get on with the crash flight, are Cardiff city now £15m out of pocket, could cause the club to close.
This could be one of the most complex insurance and big payouts ever for one crash.
What if the players family go for all and sundry.
I looked at the standard Lloyd’s Accident Policy.
Hazardous Occupations, Sports, Pastimes or Activities
If you engage in any active occupation, sport or pastime or other activity which has a hazardous nature you should disclose it to us. If you are in any doubt as to what constitutes hazardous and if you are covered for such activity please contact your broker.
What is not covered (applicable to Sections one and two)
This contract of insurance does not cover claims in any way caused or contributed to by:
1. war, whether war be declared or not, hostilities or any act of war or civil war;
2. the actual or threatened malicious use of pathogenic or poisonous biological or chemical materials;
3. nuclear reaction, nuclear radiation or radioactive contamination;
4. your engaging in or taking part in armed forces service or operations;
5. your engaging in flying of any kind other than as a passenger;
So it will depend on an interpretation of Hazardous Occupations and whether they still consider you a passenger on a flight that is unlicensed.
Join Date: May 2005
Location: WILTSHIRE
Posts: 82
Even leaving Wingly aside is it just me or is it beginning to look as though there is a whole, widespread and extensive industry going on in the UK flying illegal charters on N reg (and possibly others) aircraft to the severe detriment of bona-fide AOC operators and the CAA is just sitting there fat, dumb and happy and doing sweet fanny adams about it?
Just how big is this particular elephant in our room?
Just how big is this particular elephant in our room?
Join Date: Mar 2018
Location: Central UK
Posts: 470
Or rather, I couldn't, as no accident report was filed.
Well, one was, but it wasn't a paper one (the airline never troubled to pass that on to the CAA.)
And the result?
Nada. Zip. Nothing. And no official record of the event.
In terms of enforcement the CAA are a sleepy poodle with chocolate teeth and rubber balls.
I doubt that has changed in the not too many years since that occurred.
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: UK
Posts: 1,494
Never realised how that Wingly thing operated, but seeing that link above, the whole concept should be shut down.
And to think of the discussions there have been and fuss about what a trial flight might be.
Also how would insurance get on with the crash flight, are Cardiff city now £15m out of pocket, could cause the club to close.
This could be one of the most complex insurance and big payouts ever for one crash.
What if the players family go for all and sundry.
And to think of the discussions there have been and fuss about what a trial flight might be.
Also how would insurance get on with the crash flight, are Cardiff city now £15m out of pocket, could cause the club to close.
This could be one of the most complex insurance and big payouts ever for one crash.
What if the players family go for all and sundry.
Edit Runway30 beat me to it... do you have any more detail on "passenger"?
Join Date: Mar 2014
Location: The World
Posts: 1,277
Even leaving Wingly aside is it just me or is it beginning to look as though there is a whole, widespread and extensive industry going on in the UK flying illegal charters on N reg (and possibly others) aircraft to the severe detriment of bona-fide AOC operators and the CAA is just sitting there fat, dumb and happy and doing sweet fanny adams about it?
Just how big is this particular elephant in our room?
Just how big is this particular elephant in our room?
In contrast to FAAs strict 'Don't even think policy', Europe has always been attracted by ideas of private 'special networks' and kept that not confined to Sicily. I doubt that'll change anytime soon. Just to throw some petrol to the campfire, Brexit could give the opportunity for CAA to adopt a more FAA-like approach ...
Join Date: Aug 2015
Location: The South
Posts: 95
Wow, GA in the UK has changed immeasurably with "Globalisation" since I was last involved there 22 years ago.
So all I have to do now is pop over to Florida and buy a thrashed out "complex single" eg a 1984 Malibu, own it through some offshore company trust type setup, keep it on on N reg, get my FAA PPL while I'm there, make some connections in UK with "Fixer/Agent" types/wealthy circles , and I'm good to go, International "charters", sorry , I mean doing a mate a favour/cost sharing , including overwater, night , winter, single engine flights. I'll be quids in.
CAA have really dropped the ball.
So all I have to do now is pop over to Florida and buy a thrashed out "complex single" eg a 1984 Malibu, own it through some offshore company trust type setup, keep it on on N reg, get my FAA PPL while I'm there, make some connections in UK with "Fixer/Agent" types/wealthy circles , and I'm good to go, International "charters", sorry , I mean doing a mate a favour/cost sharing , including overwater, night , winter, single engine flights. I'll be quids in.
CAA have really dropped the ball.
Join Date: Mar 2018
Location: Central UK
Posts: 470
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Cardiff
Posts: 559
I don’t know whether Cool Flourish Ltd. owned this aircraft or not because I can’t find the database in the US that others have quoted. However two Chartered Accountants acquiring 2 £1 shares from other nominees leads to the suspicion that they are themselves nominees and are just another layer obscuring the ownership of this company. Is this really the lack of transparency that we want in air transport? Uncovering the ownership of the aircraft would probably give more answers as to what has gone on here. Maybe when we get into charges/financial claims, someone will start talking?
Join Date: Jan 2016
Location: Uk
Posts: 203
Even leaving Wingly aside is it just me or is it beginning to look as though there is a whole, widespread and extensive industry going on in the UK flying illegal charters on N reg (and possibly others) aircraft to the severe detriment of bona-fide AOC operators and the CAA is just sitting there fat, dumb and happy and doing sweet fanny adams about it?
Just how big is this particular elephant in our room?
Just how big is this particular elephant in our room?
Join Date: Mar 2016
Location: Location: Location
Posts: 31
Regarding the 'transcript' in post #524
I wonder what is the source of the transcript? It doesn’t have the appearance of a character-for-character copy from some sort of communication device (even if subsequently tidied-up).
Could it just be an after-the-fact subjective summary of the conversations? It does seem to have very good grammar and punctuation and be a bit ‘wordy’ for a series of text messages.
It just popped-up on Sky News four days after the event as “Text messages released between Sala and Jack McKay”. Released by whom - does anyone know?
Doesn't really reveal anything new any of that lot to be fair, other than Emiliano Sala being able to command a great level of writing English considering he's from South America and played his football in France. I haven't heard any full interviews with him in the British media so he may have a great standard of English, but he only spoke Portuguese on the released tape recording from the night. I might be looking at it too deeply and being too suspicious, but something doesn't seem right to me.
Could it just be an after-the-fact subjective summary of the conversations? It does seem to have very good grammar and punctuation and be a bit ‘wordy’ for a series of text messages.
It just popped-up on Sky News four days after the event as “Text messages released between Sala and Jack McKay”. Released by whom - does anyone know?

Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Hotel Sheets, Downtown Plunketville
Age: 73
Posts: 0
The remarkable feature of this accident is the fact that a high value soccer player was being transported in a single engine aircraft, at night over water, by a 59 year old wannabe pilot plumber.
I do wonder in making the arrangements for the flight as to what sort of representations were made regarding the owner, operator and pilot. Whichever way you look at the picture, it is grim for all who have been involved. Some very serious legal consequences are inevitable.
I do wonder in making the arrangements for the flight as to what sort of representations were made regarding the owner, operator and pilot. Whichever way you look at the picture, it is grim for all who have been involved. Some very serious legal consequences are inevitable.
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Cardiff
Posts: 559
Regarding the 'transcript' in post #524
I wonder what is the source of the transcript? It doesn’t have the appearance of a character-for-character copy from some sort of communication device (even if subsequently tidied-up).
Could it just be an after-the-fact subjective summary of the conversations? It does seem to have very good grammar and punctuation and be a bit ‘wordy’ for a series of text messages.
It just popped-up on Sky News four days after the event as “Text messages released between Sala and Jack McKay”. Released by whom - does anyone know?
I wonder what is the source of the transcript? It doesn’t have the appearance of a character-for-character copy from some sort of communication device (even if subsequently tidied-up).
Could it just be an after-the-fact subjective summary of the conversations? It does seem to have very good grammar and punctuation and be a bit ‘wordy’ for a series of text messages.
It just popped-up on Sky News four days after the event as “Text messages released between Sala and Jack McKay”. Released by whom - does anyone know?
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Herts, UK
Posts: 744
Regarding the 'transcript' in post #524
I wonder what is the source of the transcript? It doesn’t have the appearance of a character-for-character copy from some sort of communication device (even if subsequently tidied-up).
Could it just be an after-the-fact subjective summary of the conversations? It does seem to have very good grammar and punctuation and be a bit ‘wordy’ for a series of text messages.
It just popped-up on Sky News four days after the event as “Text messages released between Sala and Jack McKay”. Released by whom - does anyone know?
I wonder what is the source of the transcript? It doesn’t have the appearance of a character-for-character copy from some sort of communication device (even if subsequently tidied-up).
Could it just be an after-the-fact subjective summary of the conversations? It does seem to have very good grammar and punctuation and be a bit ‘wordy’ for a series of text messages.
It just popped-up on Sky News four days after the event as “Text messages released between Sala and Jack McKay”. Released by whom - does anyone know?
Looks very typical to me.... and very credible too. Not sure how brief you get but much less and as we so often find, the content can be misconstrued or needs another text to clarify! Then there's the good manners aspect of not being rudely too brief.
No I doubt a journo wouldn't want to say exactly how they came across it though. But I'd put a fiver on it being pretty near the mark.
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Reading, UK
Posts: 12,467
It sounds like the aircraft never returned to the UK - it was cancelled from the UK register in September 2007 as "transferred to Portugal" and restored in June 2011, now owned by Portimao-based Aero VIP.
Its status has been "No flight" since June 2015, suggesting that it was flying prior to that.
Join Date: Dec 2000
Location: uk
Posts: 1,640
ie the elephant wouldn't fit into a room!!!!! And I know who you mean on Rotorheads....

Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: UK
Age: 72
Posts: 2,473
That aircraft used to be on my company's AOC in the 1980s, although we flew it almost exclusively for the automotive company that owned it. In light of the amazing revelations appearing here regarding non AOC 'charters' I'm pleased not to be in the business now. The CAA's attitude even in those days was far from satisfactory in this regard. We regularly flew a local company's executives from SEN to GLA in an Aztec and one day I was processing some other pax in the terminal at SEN. I noticed these clients there apparently chatting to a freelance pilot we often used and who had, in fact flown them under our AOC previously. It turned out they were flying to GLA in an Aztec this pilot had hired for them and they said "well, it's a lot cheaper to pay him the hire cost and for his services than using your company". I pointed out that his CPL did not allow him to offer this type of service and that their insurance could well be invalid if they went ahead and something went wrong. They shrugged this off so I phoned the CAA, told them the story and suggested they ramp check the aircraft at GLA. As it would be day stopping at GLA they would have plenty of time to organise this but they never did and I heard nothing more from them; no follow up at all. Obviously things haven't changed for the better since the 1980s.
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Bognor Regis
Age: 70
Posts: 25
In the BBC story covering the texts, in Sport, not News
https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/47013474
the exchange is noted as being translated from the original French, which accounts for its unnatural feel perhaps?
https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/47013474
the exchange is noted as being translated from the original French, which accounts for its unnatural feel perhaps?