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Cardiff City Footballer Feared Missing after aircraft disappeared near Channel Island

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Cardiff City Footballer Feared Missing after aircraft disappeared near Channel Island

Old 26th Jan 2019, 09:29
  #541 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by DaveReidUK View Post
Incidentally, the Golden Eagle wasn't "written off" - it's still G-registered with a new owner, albeit based in Portugal.
Happy to be corrected, thanks – there is a reference in the 2002 accounts to a “loss on aircraft write off” but that must be a financial write off (write down) rather than a physical one.
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Old 26th Jan 2019, 09:40
  #542 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Toerag View Post
Money may not have changed hands, it may have been favours such as an executive box or tickets for a game.
Which is a form of payment.


To the wider thread: stop using the term “GA” to cover any non scheduled transport. EASA Commercial Air Transport requirements for operating under an AOC apply equally to scheduled and non-scheduled transport. Operators complying with the requirements to hold an AOC and operate in accordance with the law deserve better from the UK CAA and EASA NAAs.
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Old 26th Jan 2019, 09:59
  #543 (permalink)  
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Originally Posted by DaveReidUK View Post
DaveReidUK thanks!

Touching that Sala asks how much it will cost. Whatever it would have cost for an above board AOC legitimately operated comfy jet would be small change to both him and his penny pinching agents.

So sad.
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Old 26th Jan 2019, 10:03
  #544 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by runway30 View Post
FRIDAY JANUARY 18

7:43pm - Jack McKay: "My dad has told me that you are going home tomorrow. He could organise a plane to take you direct to Nantes and to come back on Monday, at a time that suits you, so you can get to training on Tuesday."

7:51pm - Emiliano Sala: "Ah that is great. I was just in the middle of checking if there are some flights to get to Nantes tomorrow."

7:56pm - McKay: "He said he could organise a plane that would go direct to Nantes."

7:56pm - Sala: "How much will it cost?"

7:56pm - McKay: "Nothing. He said if you help me to score goals it's nothing."

7:59pm - Sala: "Hahaha with pleasure."

8:00pm: "We are going to score lots of goals."

8:01pm: "I want to leave tomorrow for Nantes at around 11am and come back on Monday night around 9pm to Cardiff if that is possible."

8:05pm - McKay: "Good. I'll send a message when that's sorted."

SUNDAY JANUARY 20

5:00pm - Jack McKay: "Hi there is it possible you could come back at seven in the evening on Monday night? Just because the pilot has to get home in the north after he gets to Cardiff."

5:01pm - Emiliano Sala: "Hi, Half past seven would be possible."

5:03pm - McKay: "Yes that's good."

5:05pm - Sala: [PICTURE OF LUGGAGE]: "Can you ask if I can bring this on the plane?"

5:06pm - McKay: "Good yeah."

5:07pm - Sala: "But is that going to be ok for the plane?"

McKay: "Yes there is space on the plane for your luggage."

5:12pm - Sala: "Ok."

MONDAY JANUARY 21

4:16pm - Jack McKay: "I'm going to call in a moment."

[Emiliano Sala voice message]

4.23pm - McKay: "He said that it is the same company."

4.27pm - Sala: "Ok thanks."
Interesting comments about the luggage and personal belongings of the passenger, I wonder what that weighed... Did it have anything to do with the apparent 3 attempts to take off or even influence a one pilot operation?
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Old 26th Jan 2019, 10:03
  #545 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by helimutt View Post
Do you have some vested interest in this? The pilot certainly didn’t use its potential for flying ‘on top of the weather’ as you so put it.
??
No vested interest.
I started following this thread because I couldn't understand why this plane was cruising at 5000 ft in Monday's meteorological conditions and, if a problem prevented the climb out, why the pilot didn't declare an emergency and land in Jersey.
These questions still remain open, even though there is now a hypothesis that the cruising altitude choice was deliberate and dictated by licencing issues.
If the deliberate choice is confirmed, to me this is akin to reckless flying.
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Old 26th Jan 2019, 10:13
  #546 (permalink)  
 
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Piperp2... as previously mentioned the three or four attempted take offs, were in fact indicated as attempted engine starts, nothing unusual in cold conditions on a fuel injected engine if you are either not familiar with the aircraft or POH!
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Old 26th Jan 2019, 10:16
  #547 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by piperp2 View Post
Interesting comments about the luggage and personal belongings of the passenger, I wonder what that weighed... Did it have anything to do with the apparent 3 attempts to take off or even influence a one pilot operation?
In a typical PA-46-310p with full tanks, the usable load for passengers and baggage is 730 lbs or 330 kg.
In a configuration with just 2 persons in the front seats, you must put some luggage in the aft compartment or limit the fuel load to remain within the loading envelope.
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Old 26th Jan 2019, 10:20
  #548 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by piperp2 View Post
Interesting comments about the luggage and personal belongings of the passenger, I wonder what that weighed... Did it have anything to do with the apparent 3 attempts to take off or even influence a one pilot operation?
I don't attach any significance to those texts. Sala probably had no idea what sort of aircraft he would be flying on, so asking about bringing luggage would be a reasonable question.

Given that the Malibu accommodates six, including the pilot, I'd be surprised if a 300 nm trip would have limited it to 2 up plus bag(s).

Re the "3 attempts to take off" (reportedly a comment in a message from Sala), it has been suggested in these pages that he may have meant 3 attempts required to start the engine, which sounds more likely.

Edit: Beaten to it by the two previous posts !
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Old 26th Jan 2019, 10:37
  #549 (permalink)  
 
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Another way of looking at this is to ask the question "What would have happened if the accident had never taken place"; that is to say, suppose the pilot had resolved whatever issues he faced over Alderney and gone on to land uneventfully at Cardiff.

I'd suggest the answer is a big fat nothing.

And therein lies the heart of the problem; lack of effective oversight and accountability. Had the pilot believed that he would likely have had to explain his actions on landing at Cardiff, he just might have thought twice about taking off in the first place.

It's human nature for a minority of folks to bend the rules if they think there's little chance of getting found out.

If we want to make real improvements in safety, we need to take more effective enforcement action against those who break the rules and don't crash.
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Old 26th Jan 2019, 10:54
  #550 (permalink)  
 
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Just a week ago today,,, from the boards of South Wales Aviation Group reporting movements at Cardiff Airport...

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Old 26th Jan 2019, 11:19
  #551 (permalink)  
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Originally Posted by DaveReidUK View Post
I don't attach any significance to those texts. Sala probably had no idea what sort of aircraft he would be flying on, so asking about bringing luggage would be a reasonable question.

Given that the Malibu accommodates six, including the pilot, I'd be surprised if a 300 nm trip would have limited it to 2 up plus bag(s).

Re the "3 attempts to take off" (reportedly a comment in a message from Sala), it has been suggested in these pages that he may have meant 3 attempts required to start the engine, which sounds more likely.

Edit: Beaten to it by the two previous posts !
Dave, the query about the luggage was sent on Sunday 20th by which time Sala had already flown to Nantes in the same aeroplane the day before. Maybe he had no way of contacting DI directly, but he knew the size of the Malibu by then. So someone who is not the pilot nor knows anything about weight and balance has unwittingly increased the pressure on DI. Maybe of no consequence but..... The plot thickens.

DH could shed a lot of light.............
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Old 26th Jan 2019, 11:28
  #552 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by piperp2 View Post
Interesting comments about the luggage and personal belongings of the passenger, I wonder what that weighed... Did it have anything to do with the apparent 3 attempts to take off or even influence a one pilot operation?
I find this case very interesting. I have not liked the development of such sites Wingley, although this is not directly linked to them, it raises many interesting questions.

But how much responsibility can be put on McKay? I do feel that there is some clear responsibility for him here to "arrange" this flight.

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Old 26th Jan 2019, 11:50
  #553 (permalink)  
 
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Unsure if related, Fri 18th
https://planefinder.net/flight/N531E...1-18T07:15:00#

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Old 26th Jan 2019, 12:00
  #554 (permalink)  
 
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Ok, so now the trend of conversation is towards non legal charter/cost sharing etc and Wingly, whilst not being used in this instance, and being totally legal in the CAA's eyes, I saw this. I was certain that you needed 100+ hours before being a Wingly acceptable pilot. Obv not. 77 hrs in an R22 does not, in my opinion, make someone suitable to fly passengers in an R22. And I flew them for a lot of hours when I first started out. Did I take passengers for quick joyrides with me? yes I did but looking back I never should have. I knew too little. Take a look at this link. It's in the public domain on their website so I don't feel I'm doing anything wrong posting the link, but people will do all sorts to build hours. It's all legal but to me, it looks like its being run as a business by the pilot, not the odd ride in a helicopter. Too pre-planned for my liking.

https://en.wingly.io/index.php?page=...flight=1699971
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Old 26th Jan 2019, 12:09
  #555 (permalink)  
 
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I think that McKay has made about as clear an allegation of illegal public transport as it is possible to make. I also think that more serious offences could be uncovered as the investigation goes on so now is the time for the forces of law and order to do their duty.

I still think the very shy aircraft owners need to explain why they were allowing their aircraft to be used for this purpose, which has clearly been going on for some considerable time, and if I was Cardiff City I would be asking McKay what due diligence he went through to ensure that the charter business he was using was either properly licensed or the flights were being brokered to a properly licensed operator.
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Old 26th Jan 2019, 12:15
  #556 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by korrol View Post
Just a week ago today,,, from the boards of South Wales Aviation Group reporting movements at Cardiff Airport...
See post #44.

Originally Posted by Redlands View Post
Yes, Eclipse N531EA was noted at CWL on Friday 18th, having arrived from Nantes, and departed again about an hour later, so it may well have brought the player to Cardiff for the signing last weekend.

It also flew Cardiff-Nantes on 8th January, returning the following day, presumably connected with Sala's transfer negotiations. For the 8-9 Jan trip it positioned from/to Doncaster-Sheffield.
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Old 26th Jan 2019, 12:19
  #557 (permalink)  
 
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From the Daily Mirror article...

McKay said: "In regards to the booking of the flight, we contacted David Henderson who has flown us and many of our players all over Europe on countless occasions.
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Old 26th Jan 2019, 12:25
  #558 (permalink)  
 
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I think we are all aware of who McKay has thrown under the bus.
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Old 26th Jan 2019, 12:53
  #559 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by helimutt View Post
Ok, so now the trend of conversation is towards non legal charter/cost sharing etc and Wingly, whilst not being used in this instance, and being totally legal in the CAA's eyes, I saw this. I was certain that you needed 100+ hours before being a Wingly acceptable pilot. Obv not. 77 hrs in an R22 does not, in my opinion, make someone suitable to fly passengers in an R22. And I flew them for a lot of hours when I first started out. Did I take passengers for quick joyrides with me? yes I did but looking back I never should have. I knew too little. Take a look at this link. It's in the public domain on their website so I don't feel I'm doing anything wrong posting the link, but people will do all sorts to build hours. It's all legal but to me, it looks like its being run as a business by the pilot, not the odd ride in a helicopter. Too pre-planned for my liking.

https://en.wingly.io/index.php?page=flights&flight=1699971
Helimutt:

Jesus! My understanding was that they had dropped helicopters from the site 2 years ago due to the fact that the pilots have to demonstrate they have insurance, and that no insurer would take on these flights. 77 hours in an R22? He doesn't know enough to know how dangerous he is. When I and a couple of others started researching this lot we registered as customers and pilots, as soon as we started really digging they threatened us with lawyers on the basis of the idiotic letter from the CAA. In fact one colleague went to enforcements with that document as we believed it was fake. Even CAA enforcements were shocked to find it was real.

A read of this page is depressing enough, but follow the links to their arrangements with various NAA's, the CAA and EASA:
https://en.wingly.io/index.php?page=...ub_page=safety

I'm 60 in a few years so will have to stop single pilot AOC work by law, maybe this is a way to keep going, But maybe 30+ years and over 17 000 hours makes me over qualified.

SND
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Old 26th Jan 2019, 13:01
  #560 (permalink)  
 
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You wanna adventure, book a flight offered 'on your discretion' at Wingly with a whooping 50TT pilot with 5hoT ... and we push 60 year old pilots out of service, nuts.
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