Cessna 414 Down in Santa Ana, California
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Cessna 414 Down in Santa Ana, California
Aircraft Down in Staples Parking Lot
Dashcam Video
Happened yesterday. English-as-a-second-language witness stated that "The airplane was twirling down." A stall/spin LOC accident, I fear. RIP victims and condolences to surviving family members.
- Ed
Dashcam Video
Happened yesterday. English-as-a-second-language witness stated that "The airplane was twirling down." A stall/spin LOC accident, I fear. RIP victims and condolences to surviving family members.
- Ed
Last edited by cavuman1; 6th Aug 2018 at 13:57. Reason: Add Link
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Dramatic footage. Sure seems to be a stall, but I wonder what the actual emergency was that they called in.
If this is correct, the owner of the plane is the United States Department Of Interior:
Aircraft Data N727, 1982 Cessna A185F Skywagon 185 C/N 18504371
If this is correct, the owner of the plane is the United States Department Of Interior:
Aircraft Data N727, 1982 Cessna A185F Skywagon 185 C/N 18504371
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Mark, that's a different aircraft, a Cessna 185.
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I was staying in the Crowne Plaza just down the road at the beginning of June. It’s lucky there were no casualties on the ground because South Coast Plaza across the road is a really busy mall. From the pictures I’ve seen I can’t see any evidence of fire.
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110kt if I remember correctly. But there are so many modifications for these planes (e.g. RAM conversion or vortex generators) that one really must look it up for each individual airframe. And then these flightaware speeds are ground speeds, not airspeeds and not very precise either.
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Spins frequently do start with a roll over with extreme descent. Recovery may look as what we could see in the videos available at present (the last few seconds, not showing how the dive started).
The accident site doesn‘t look like if there was plenty of fuel spilled. If there was fuel, a fire would have been very likely with a high impact crash like that.
C414 VYSE is 108 KIAS and VS1 is about 80 KIAS without vortex generators (which most C414s do have).
The accident site doesn‘t look like if there was plenty of fuel spilled. If there was fuel, a fire would have been very likely with a high impact crash like that.
C414 VYSE is 108 KIAS and VS1 is about 80 KIAS without vortex generators (which most C414s do have).
Howdy
Crash site showed a full length section, (starboard fuselage?), with most windows intact. Not much horizontal on impact, so the nose up may only have added some extra pancake. No lawn dart, not at that airspeed, the airframe would have been demolished. Completely.
imo.
btw, what did you think I was trying to say? That running out of fuel and losing the flight path cannot result in a near vertical impact?
Last edited by Concours77; 6th Aug 2018 at 22:42.
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My brother has the 425 and I can't imagine getting it out of a spin from 1000 feet. It's so fast and slick that even with that big tail fin it's going to take a couple thousand feet to recover. What I see in the video sure looks like a spin to me. The other puzzling thing to me is the twin engine failure. I don't see how you run out of fuel in both engines at the same time, so I would guess one failed, then the turn into the dead engine may have caused excessive control input as the second engine failed. I do spins in approved aircraft and I'd hate to spin that beast.
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My brother has the 425 and I can't imagine getting it out of a spin from 1000 feet. It's so fast and slick that even with that big tail fin it's going to take a couple thousand feet to recover. What I see in the video sure looks like a spin to me. The other puzzling thing to me is the twin engine failure. I don't see how you run out of fuel in both engines at the same time, so I would guess one failed, then the turn into the dead engine may have caused excessive control input as the second engine failed. I do spins in approved aircraft and I'd hate to spin that beast.
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Absolutely! But think about being in a right turn and the right engine fails. Suddenly you're skidding from the asymmetrical thrust now coming from the left engine. The big four bladed prop on the right engine is inducing severe drag and the airplane becomes very difficult to control. As you start to break into the spin the left engine quits and now you're banked hard right, full left aileron (more drag) and the airplane gives it up and around you go. Recovery is yoke neutral, full left rudder. The airplane is so slick that it would take a couple of thousand feet to stop the rotation and level out. That's test pilot stuff. The average pilot today has very little or no spin training and would likely not react in time to prevent it. Then insufficient altitude for recovery and it's over.
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Absolutely! But think about being in a right turn and the right engine fails. Suddenly you're skidding from the asymmetrical thrust now coming from the left engine. The big four bladed prop on the right engine is inducing severe drag and the airplane becomes very difficult to control. As you start to break into the spin the left engine quits and now you're banked hard right, full left aileron (more drag) and the airplane gives it up and around you go. Recovery is yoke neutral, full left rudder. The airplane is so slick that it would take a couple of thousand feet to stop the rotation and level out. That's test pilot stuff. The average pilot today has very little or no spin training and would likely not react in time to prevent it. Then insufficient altitude for recovery and it's over.
Flying in to this airport from NoCal needs attention. With five aboard and a boring drone down the valley, once descending into the valley over the Big Bear, the pace needs focus. The valley is a surprise after the boring valley, and the cockpit environment can get busy. Excitement of the expectation of a fun convention, the demands of a complex aircraft, and an adjustment to a busy airborne environment, a bad time to get behind. If the aircraft was a charter, or a rental, time in type would be a factor. A friend owned a 414 and also had a 440. He loved the turbine, and was trying to sell the piston twin.
I don’t like to rely on the eyewitnesses, but “sputtering” is a troubling word. Fuel issues? Loss of an engine should not have been fatal, of course, but just to say it may have come at the “wrong time”. Low, and slow, crowded airspace, after a drone down valley? Such a tragic thing. The Mayday was more likely an engine failure, not fuel starvation, giving the pilot the benefit of the doubt. Not much to go on yet. Concord was my home and the airfield was my base. Lost a friend in a crash at the airfield in the eighties. Flying a Baron, he was returning from LA.
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I don’t like to rely on the eyewitnesses, but “sputtering” is a troubling word. Fuel issues? Loss of an engine should not have been fatal, of course, but just to say it may have come at the “wrong time”. Low, and slow, crowded airspace, after a drone down valley? Such a tragic thing. The Mayday was more likely an engine failure, not fuel starvation, giving the pilot the benefit of the doubt. Not much to go on yet. Concord was my home and the airfield was my base. Lost a friend in a crash at the airfield in the eighties. Flying a Baron, he was returning from LA.
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Flying in to this airport from NoCal needs attention. With five aboard and a boring drone down the valley, once descending into the valley over the Big Bear, the pace needs focus. The valley is a surprise after the boring valley, and the cockpit environment can get busy. Excitement of the expectation of a fun convention, the demands of a complex aircraft, and an adjustment to a busy airborne environment, a bad time to get behind. If the aircraft was a charter, or a rental, time in type would be a factor. A friend owned a 414 and also had a 440. He loved the turbine, and was trying to sell the piston twin.
I don’t like to rely on the eyewitnesses, but “sputtering” is a troubling word. Fuel issues? Loss of an engine should not have been fatal, of course, but just to say it may have come at the “wrong time”. Low, and slow, crowded airspace, after a drone down valley? Such a tragic thing. The Mayday was more likely an engine failure, not fuel starvation, giving the pilot the benefit of the doubt. Not much to go on yet. Concord was my home and the airfield was my base. Lost a friend in a crash at the airfield in the eighties. Flying a Baron, he was returning from LA.
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concours
I don’t like to rely on the eyewitnesses, but “sputtering” is a troubling word. Fuel issues? Loss of an engine should not have been fatal, of course, but just to say it may have come at the “wrong time”. Low, and slow, crowded airspace, after a drone down valley? Such a tragic thing. The Mayday was more likely an engine failure, not fuel starvation, giving the pilot the benefit of the doubt. Not much to go on yet. Concord was my home and the airfield was my base. Lost a friend in a crash at the airfield in the eighties. Flying a Baron, he was returning from LA.
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concours
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Which when they crashed would have put them downwind for 20R. If one engine had failed, I know this aircraft has pretty poor single engine performance but it should have been drama free to complete the circuit and land. If both engines stopped, well that’s something different. Landing from downwind after an engine failure is something I used to practice in singles. In my view, in a twin, where he was, if both engines had stopped, not a hope.
CCR is a very busy GA field that at one time had scheduled service flying the 727. The airfield is located in Concord, California. My assumption was he flew direct. Apologies if he had a different route, I missed that. If he was flying other than direct, and lengthened his flight time, might bring fuel issues back into the realm of possibilities.
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