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Plane down Overbury, Tewkesbury.

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Plane down Overbury, Tewkesbury.

Old 2nd Mar 2019, 19:25
  #101 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: UK
Posts: 1,063
Yes this one.... no outrage here at the loss of the innocent student... perhaps he needed to be a footballer and then we could discuss the ratings of pilot and fitness to fly and who was paying for what before legal consequences and who takes legal action against who..
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Old 3rd Mar 2019, 10:53
  #102 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2016
Location: S.E.Asia
Posts: 1,693
The big difference is the way both flights started Pitts.

Flight planning starts on the ground not in the air.

In the case of this one it was a short positioning flight with an experienced instructor who having encounterd bad weather decided to press on instead of turning back.

In the Sala incident it was a pilot who by his own admission was “rusty” with instrument flying but had no night night rating and was attempting to carry out a public transport flight. He also had the opportunity to divert in to Guernsey for the night and continue the flight the next day.

The common denominator in both was lack of rational pilot decision making. They both chose not to declare a weather emergency and ask for help.

Both pilots wanted to satisfy those who were paying for the flying.

The Sala incident gets more coverage because he was an innocent passenger and not crew.



There is an old saying....

No job on a Monday morning is worth dying for on a Sunday afternoon.

Last edited by Mike Flynn; 3rd Mar 2019 at 11:05.
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Old 4th Mar 2019, 11:01
  #103 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Oct 2001
Location: Dorset, UK
Posts: 619
According to the CAA website G-INFO today:

G-WAVS
Status - De-registered De Reg date: 27 Jun 2018 Reason: Permanently withdrawn from use
COFA/PERMIT: Revoked
distaff_beancounter is offline  
Old 4th Mar 2019, 17:17
  #104 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: UK
Posts: 1,063
Originally Posted by Mike Flynn View Post
The big difference is the way both flights started Pitts.

Flight planning starts on the ground not in the air.

In the case of this one it was a short positioning flight with an experienced instructor who having encounterd bad weather decided to press on instead of turning back.

In the Sala incident it was a pilot who by his own admission was “rusty” with instrument flying but had no night night rating and was attempting to carry out a public transport flight. He also had the opportunity to divert in to Guernsey for the night and continue the flight the next day.

The common denominator in both was lack of rational pilot decision making. They both chose not to declare a weather emergency and ask for help.

Both pilots wanted to satisfy those who were paying for the flying.

The Sala incident gets more coverage because he was an innocent passenger and not crew.



There is an old saying....

No job on a Monday morning is worth dying for on a Sunday afternoon.
Firstly Mike don't patronise me. I don't need to be educated on the flight planning process and neither do I need some folksy wisdom around old sayings.

Whilst we await the final report and the facts around the PA46 accident I would agree that poor weather decision making was likely at its heart, which is the common factor in this PA28 accident. So you having said they are very different accidents ultimately concede they are very similar.

I don't know and I don't care what your own personal piloting experience is but should you ever find yourself in the clag through your own mistake I suggest that declaring an emergency and asking for help is unlikely to change the outcome unless it is the Almighty you are talking to. See now you have got me at this patronising business, I apologise.

You have no idea what the compensation was with the PA46 flight, not a sausage - unless you do - and I invite you to lay out the pounds and pence, euro or cent amount that was to be paid. I suspect you can not give that. Neither can you highlight any long list of these "grey charter" flights that you deride that end in disaster.

What you are quite good at is trawling public records and other database information to join dots to create an environment of illegality that led to a venomous reaction from all.

It would seem to me that the only difference between this PA28 flight and the PA46 flight is the perception around funding. Pilots can make piloting mistakes and generally people can also get led into things that they wish they had not. The criticism by all may ultimately be fair comment and that is fine its just a great pity that some seem to be taking great delight in presenting assumption as fact, all the more so because as I have highlighted here it is all rather skewed.

Pittsextra is offline  
Old 5th Mar 2019, 15:23
  #105 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2016
Location: S.E.Asia
Posts: 1,693
I have no intention of patronising you Pitts.

However I will question this statement.

I don't know and I don't care what your own personal piloting experience is but should you ever find yourself in the clag through your own mistake I suggest that declaring an emergency and asking for help is unlikely to change the outcome unless it is the Almighty you are talking to. See now you have got me at this patronising business, I apologise.
The sad fact is too many pilots are reluctant to admit they have a problem until it is too late to ask for radio help.By that I mean asking for radar assistance because of being uncertain of position. Please tell me what is wrong with just stating on the radio that you are lost? I have used the radio many times over three decades to ask for assistance or help. Does that make me a crap pilot? The answer is whatever the quality of my flying skills I have flown large chunks of the world as a single pilot and am still here. I know when to turn back!

Have you never asked asked a controller for help with an approach in difficult weather?

As for your comment.....

What you are quite good at is trawling public records and other database information to join dots to create an environment of illegality that led to a venomous reaction from all.
I have never disguised the fact that I am a retired journalist and long time pilot. I got my UK PPL in 1981 and my Australian fixed wing and helicopter licences in 1989.

I have paid for all my flying over decades and continents.

After allegations on here from the subject of a very very long thread on PPRuNe I decided to use my real name.

From your tag I guess you are a UK recreational pilot.

Please feel free to pm me.

Last edited by Mike Flynn; 5th Mar 2019 at 15:53.
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Old 5th Mar 2019, 16:49
  #106 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: UK
Posts: 1,063
The thing that jarrs is the asymmetric treatment of one pilot to another. The instructor seems painted a good old boy made a mistake, the other a cowboy who had been always at it. Forgetting that both killed an innocent victim, both having made poor decisions centred on the weather. Im not adversed to asking for help if that which you seek is available from whosoever it's being requested from. Perhaps being uncertain of position was a factor, perhaps secondary to being in the air at all. Maybe we will see. Yes you are quite correct i enjoy recreational flying and as so far it would seem we have both avoided getting killed in aircraft i guess we are both winning.
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