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Accidents and Close Calls Discussion on accidents, close calls, and other unplanned aviation events, so we can learn from them, and be better pilots ourselves.

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Old 9th Jan 2018, 12:42   #21 (permalink)
 
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The press were allowed to photograph the crash site today.




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Old 9th Jan 2018, 15:26   #22 (permalink)
 
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Poor folks, its taken some violence to twist that engine around and take off the wing. Is the accident site situated along the approach route for the destination airport instrument procedure?
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Old 9th Jan 2018, 16:39   #23 (permalink)
 
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Is the accident site situated along the approach route for the destination airport instrument procedure?
No, its on the side of the isolated hill in the Severn valley
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Old 9th Jan 2018, 16:39   #24 (permalink)
 
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Originally Posted by piperboy84 View Post
Poor folks, its taken some violence to twist that engine around and take off the wing. Is the accident site situated along the approach route for the destination airport instrument procedure?
The North east arrival route is about 5km to the ESE. I will get the chart. Altitude at the IAF is 2400 feet.

http://www.ead.eurocontrol.int/eadba...2013-03-07.pdf

Last edited by direct ortac; 9th Jan 2018 at 16:43. Reason: To Add URL to EGBJ chart
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Old 9th Jan 2018, 20:05   #25 (permalink)
 
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I've seen aircraft in worse state than pictured and people have walked away. It is the vertical G that does most of the damage to us mortals.

If it were horizontal G i think this accident could have been survivable. IMHO.
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Old 10th Jan 2018, 00:48   #26 (permalink)
 
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I've seen aircraft in worse state than pictured and people have walked away. It is the vertical G that does most of the damage to us mortals.

If it were horizontal G i think this accident could have been survivable. IMHO.
The damage looks more severe in this picture. Both wings ripped off.




This from an earlier report.

Quote:
Air traffic control at Gloucestershire Airport lost contact with the plane at around 12:40pm.

There was a lot of fog in the area, and eyewitnesses said the plane had hit a tree.

Last edited by Jay Sata; 10th Jan 2018 at 01:06.
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Old 10th Jan 2018, 09:20   #27 (permalink)
 
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Not much sign of vertical impact there (such as from a high rate of decent, as in a spin). One would expect the wings to be attached and a flattening of the fuselage. If it's come through a substantial tree in forward flight before hitting the ground that would explain both wings detached as well as the severe damage generally. While the fuselage is not too distorted it has obviously taken a lot of impact damage.
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Old 10th Jan 2018, 09:38   #28 (permalink)
 
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Another Aero's Warrior,G-OOMA, was at 3600ft in the area shortly before the accident.
I imagine they will supply valuable information regarding the localised weather at the time.
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Old 10th Jan 2018, 22:58   #29 (permalink)
 
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How on earth could they have been be so low in such conditions? Engine failure? Earlier today I read somewhere that the witness did hear the engine noise.
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Old 10th Jan 2018, 23:43   #30 (permalink)
 
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All sorts of hostile influences at play here. Icing, disorientation, spacial confusion and some loss of control placing them at a height that is not even close to MSA. Awfully sad.
Too many of these GA fatalities recently.
RIP
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Old 11th Jan 2018, 06:20   #31 (permalink)
 
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The flying conditions were not VFR but the flight was perfectly feasible on instruments and other aircraft were in the area at 3000 ft plus. There have been no reports of any mayday calls which suggests a sudden event rather than a developing problem, the experienced instructor would have been very familiar with the area, as ATC was tracking them they will provide the answer. If they were attempting VFR, why !.
Very sad .
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Old 11th Jan 2018, 17:15   #32 (permalink)
 
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Were other aircraft VMC at 3000 on top, or IMC? Icing does seem a possibility given the temperatures.

Propeller tips curled over which does look like it was turning.
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Old 12th Jan 2018, 06:39   #33 (permalink)
 
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There's no mention of the intended flight path/route. I assume they took off from Glos', but am curious about the 180 before the crash. Would they have 'booked out'? As a local instructor I would expect them to do so. What were they attempting?
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Old 12th Jan 2018, 07:18   #34 (permalink)
 
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Originally Posted by RAT 5 View Post
There's no mention of the intended flight path/route. I assume they took off from Glos', but am curious about the 180 before the crash. Would they have 'booked out'? As a local instructor I would expect them to do so. What were they attempting?
If you're referring to the FR24 screenshot above, it's a different aircraft/different flight, but similar area.
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Old 12th Jan 2018, 07:35   #35 (permalink)
 
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I posted the screenshot of G-OOMA because it was in the same area shortly before the accident. It had departed Gloucester and appeared to be heading back there before turning towards Coventry.

Its ADS-B track only appeared when it climbed near the accident site and as you can see disappears before landing.

I understand both aircraft were operated by Aero's.

This sad mishap appears to be weather or engine related.

Last edited by Jay Sata; 12th Jan 2018 at 08:19.
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Old 12th Jan 2018, 08:48   #36 (permalink)
 
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Yet another sad CFIT event. Speculation and irrelevant aircraft tracks don't help.
Quote:
The flying conditions were not VFR
Conditions are VMC. VFR are Rules!
Quote:
which suggests a sudden event rather than a developing problem
CFIT usually is! Witnesses reported it flew into a tree.
Quote:
the experienced instructor would have been very familiar with the area
Familiarity does not help if you can't see.
Quote:
as ATC was tracking them they will provide the answer.
But ATC had lost contact with them at 1240!

Whilst you are waiting for more factual information you might like to read CAA Safety Sense Leaflet 23 Para 6 describes circumstances which match this accident perfectly. There was an almost identical event last January on the Chiltern Hills.
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Old 12th Jan 2018, 12:11   #37 (permalink)
 
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If you look at the screenshot of G-OOMA it was more or less overhead at 12.50 just 10 minutes after contact was lost with G-WAVS.



It appears to be on track for its base at Gloucester then turns 180 degrees and at 12.52 heads back towards Coventry.



Is it safe to assume G-OOMA was at 3700ft VFR on top?

As I understand both aircraft operated by the same school and in the same area at the same time.
Coincidence or what?

The CAA Safety Sense leaflet 23 is worth reading many times during your flying career.

Last edited by Jay Sata; 12th Jan 2018 at 12:42.
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Old 12th Jan 2018, 17:34   #38 (permalink)
 
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If it wasn’t an equipment issue I wonder if they were faced with the dilemma of either scud running lower and lower or climbing into the soup, and chose the former not knowing or forgetting about the one hill in an otherwise flat low level valley. You’d think with an instructor being on board climbing to get on top would have been the first choice and just roll the dice on not iceing up. Sad business all around.
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Old 12th Jan 2018, 18:25   #39 (permalink)
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tmmorris View Post
Were other aircraft VMC at 3000 on top, or IMC? Icing does seem a possibility given the temperatures.

Propeller tips curled over which does look like it was turning.
Hard to be certain, but to my view the first photo shows prop tips bent outwards, suggesting engine was producing power at impact.
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Old 12th Jan 2018, 21:36   #40 (permalink)
 
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PB scud running assumes some forward viz underneath the crap. From the photographs the fog looked dense with virtually zero forward viz. Obviously assumes conditions were similar at time of incident.
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