Two killed on beach when aircraft makes emergency landing.
I don't see how we can make any 'judgement' call yet.
Some observations from the available YouTube videos I've seen:
- In some videos before the Police tapes were up there were still puddles of water between the aircraft and crowd side of the beach. Other video post Police tape show a dusty dry sand. Suggests the tide were on its way out.
- As the aircraft has clear damage from hitting an object it would suggest to me the high probability of the aircraft spinning around on landing. So the way the aircraft is sitting post accident may not indicate flight approach path.
- The sea breeze 'effect' can be quiet strong along a beach at low level. The wind direction and strength barely 500' above the beach could be very different. A pilot having an engine failure a few thousand feet above the built up residential area behind the beach might be suckered into gliding towards the ocean thinking they will make it. As the aircraft looses altitude and the local sea breeze effect comes into play then the aircraft may land short.
To me, waiting for an accident report before judging the pilot seems prudent at this time.
.
Some observations from the available YouTube videos I've seen:
- In some videos before the Police tapes were up there were still puddles of water between the aircraft and crowd side of the beach. Other video post Police tape show a dusty dry sand. Suggests the tide were on its way out.
- As the aircraft has clear damage from hitting an object it would suggest to me the high probability of the aircraft spinning around on landing. So the way the aircraft is sitting post accident may not indicate flight approach path.
- The sea breeze 'effect' can be quiet strong along a beach at low level. The wind direction and strength barely 500' above the beach could be very different. A pilot having an engine failure a few thousand feet above the built up residential area behind the beach might be suckered into gliding towards the ocean thinking they will make it. As the aircraft looses altitude and the local sea breeze effect comes into play then the aircraft may land short.
To me, waiting for an accident report before judging the pilot seems prudent at this time.
.
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Australia
Posts: 1,082
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
FWIW I have had an engine failure at 60 ft.
At that point you have basically arrived.
You are going somewhere between 30 deg left or right and no further than what is just passing out of sight under the nose.
By the time I secured the engine and switches I was pulling the flap on while flaring to land.
Maybe 3 - 4 seconds.
"Glide Ratio"? Think space shuttle. Especially if you are obliged to stuff the nose down to maintain flying speed initially.
At that point you have basically arrived.
You are going somewhere between 30 deg left or right and no further than what is just passing out of sight under the nose.
By the time I secured the engine and switches I was pulling the flap on while flaring to land.
Maybe 3 - 4 seconds.
"Glide Ratio"? Think space shuttle. Especially if you are obliged to stuff the nose down to maintain flying speed initially.
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Sydney
Age: 53
Posts: 27
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
^ Quite true, you don't have any time if your engine fails at 60 feet.... but you would have been already lined up on the centreline of a runway. The engine here, we don't know if it was rough running then failed or just failed, but we know the pilots had time for a mayday. That would have happened well in advance of the final few seconds of flight.
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Australia
Posts: 1,082
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Why would that be?
Some of us do this for a living.
Some days I don't get above 300ft.
I respect the fact you have a PPL.
Respect the fact many on here have a bit more.
Some of us do this for a living.
Some days I don't get above 300ft.
I respect the fact you have a PPL.
Respect the fact many on here have a bit more.
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Sydney
Age: 53
Posts: 27
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
An engine failure at PPL training or private flying altitude means some time to think - so even if I only have a PPL, I don't see how your engine failure at 60ft is directly comparible to an engine failure at PPL altitudes where you do have time to do things, including make a mayday and select a landing point. The 60 ft I mentioned also isn't the height where the pilots would have first realised this was a crowded beach - that would have been clear well beforehand. 60 ft is about where you might know your exact landing point on the beach and still have a few seconds to do something if there is something at your landing point.
Selecting a suitable forced landing site was drummed into me during PPL. In the absence of control problems, it's quite hard to see how a beach with people on it would be suitable.
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: UK
Age: 34
Posts: 141
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Cardiff
Posts: 588
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I think Jay has got it spot on, it could be an FI who decided to prioritise saving his aircraft. I also have flown PFLs at deserted beaches and if my eyesight wasn't good enough to see people on the beach at 500 feet then I wouldn't have been legal to fly it. I also agree that we can't condemn the pilot before we know the full facts but after seeing the most recent pictures my decision would have been to go in the sea.
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: Unna, Germany
Posts: 412
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I asked him what I should do if I didn't like what I saw...... to which he coolly replied:
Turn the light off
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: UK
Age: 34
Posts: 141
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Cardiff
Posts: 588
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Yes, they could have seen a space between the people sitting on the beach and the people standing in the surf. There is a huge risk that someone is going to walk or run in front of you. If you go for the sea there is a risk of swimmers in the sea that you can't see. Take a choice.
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: UK
Age: 34
Posts: 141
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Yes, they could have seen a space between the people sitting on the beach and the people standing in the surf. There is a huge risk that someone is going to walk or run in front of you. If you go for the sea there is a risk of swimmers in the sea that you can't see. Take a choice.
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Following the sun and skiing... No snow involved just Spending the Kids Inheritance!
Age: 78
Posts: 175
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Video of the approach here:
https://goo.gl/pDddjg
Sorry, but you will have to sit through an advert first.
Join Date: Sep 2014
Location: EU
Posts: 107
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
The winds and the flaps would have made the exact aiming point very hard to judge. If you look at the sea, you can see there is a fairly strong wind. You can see the white in the waves.
Also I could see at least 5 people in the sea, so there would have been people in the sea too. He chose the "best" option, out of many bad options available.
Also I could see at least 5 people in the sea, so there would have been people in the sea too. He chose the "best" option, out of many bad options available.
Join Date: Aug 2000
Location: Near Stuttgart, Germany
Posts: 1,051
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Hardly. The people which can be seen in the sea are very close to the beach. 50m away from the beach they would have hurt nobody. Turning towards the sea even as low as they were in that video would have taken them far enough away. There is no excuse for landing on top of people when there is an alternative.
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Glens o' Angus by way of LA
Age: 59
Posts: 1,975
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
The winds and the flaps would have made the exact aiming point very hard to judge. If you look at the sea, you can see there is a fairly strong wind. You can see the white in the waves.
Also I could see at least 5 people in the sea, so there would have been people in the sea too. He chose the "best" option, out of many bad options available.
Also I could see at least 5 people in the sea, so there would have been people in the sea too. He chose the "best" option, out of many bad options available.
