Tiger Moth incident at Brimpton
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Tiger Moth incident at Brimpton
Staying very near this airfield where there has been a fly in.
Have just been told a Tiger Moth, on take off, has struck a parked car.
Hope all is ok.
Have just been told a Tiger Moth, on take off, has struck a parked car.
Hope all is ok.
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Pilot incompetence is the cause. Use a checklist and once it is complete, check your killer items(one of which is trim) prior to takeoff. A 20,000 hour pilot should be able to do better.
ACCIDENT
Aircraft Type and Registration: DH82A Tiger Moth Tiger Moth, G-ANMY
No & Type of Engines: 1 De Havilland Gipsy Major 1H piston engine
Year of Manufacture: 1942 (Serial no: 85466)
Date & Time (UTC): 5 June 2016 at 1345 hrs
Location: Brimpton Airfield, Berkshire
Type of Flight: Private
Persons on Board: Crew - 1 Passengers - 1
Injuries: Crew - None Passengers - None
Others - 1 (Serious)
Nature of Damage: Propeller, wings, airframe, fencing and three
parked cars
Commander’s Licence: Light Aircraft Pilot’s Licence
Commander’s Age: 67 years
Commander’s Flying Experience: 20,852 hours (of which 115 were on type)
Last 90 days - 4 hours
Last 28 days - 2 hours
Information Source: Aircraft Accident Report Form submitted by the pilot and AAIB enquiries
Synopsis
Directional control was lost during takeoff and the aircraft collided with parked cars. Its wooden propeller shattered on contact with a safety barrier and a member of the public sitting in one of the parked cars was seriously injured by flying fragments of wood.
History of the flight
The aircraft had been participating in a ‘Fly-in’ at Brimpton Airfield, Berkshire, and had a pilot and passenger aboard. For departure it was manoeuvred to the grass Runway 07, using wing walkers because of the proximity of other aircraft. The weather conditions were good for flying, with a light north-easterly wind, and the grass strip was dry.
The pilot was using an extra seat cushion for the first time, because he found the view from the rear seat of the Tiger Moth “extremely limited” and wanted to achieve the best possible lookout. While taxiing he positioned the elevator trim fully aft, which is the normal position for ground manoeuvring of the aircraft. He recalled that, having reached the holding point, he completed some of the before takeoff checks but could not recall resetting the elevator trim.
Acceleration during the takeoff appeared normal to the pilot and he applied forward pressure on the control column to lift the aircraft’s tail off the ground. It then ran over a prominent hump in the in the runway surface, and became airborne.
Concerned that the aircraft might land again and pitch forward onto its nose, the pilot relaxed the forward pressure on the control column, intending to accelerate the aircraft close to the ground. However, the aircraft pitched up in a manner that the pilot found sudden and surprising. Shortly after becoming airborne, however, the pilot began to have difficulty maintaining directional control and, after attempting to regain control, aborted the
takeoff and closed the throttle. Almost simultaneously the aircraft’s right wing contacted a safety barrier approximately 15 m from the runway edge, and the aircraft swung to the right, through the barrier, and collided with parked cars. The wooden propeller shattered
on impact with the barrier and splinters of wood were scattered up to 35 m. A member of the public, who was sitting in one of the parked cars with the door open, suffered serious injuries when struck by fragments of the propeller. The pilot turned off the fuel and electrical switches and he and his passenger vacated the aircraft normally. The emergency services were quickly on scene.
When the AAIB inspected the aircraft shortly after the accident the elevator trim was found to be in the fully aft position.
The fly-in event
The fly-in is an annual event organised by the airfield to raise money for a local charity. The organisers consulted Civil Aviation Publication (CAP) 403 – ‘Flying Displays and Special Events: A Guide to Safety and Administrative Arrangements’, and identified ‘Runway departure during take-off or landing and collision with people or static aircraft’ as a hazard.
The risk assessment determined that the distance between the crowd line and the active runway was not ideal, so the organisers mitigated this by moving the runway as far from the crowd line as the available space allowed, fencing the crowd line with safety barriers. These actions, they considered, reduced the risk to an acceptable level. In addition the organisers distributed posters to advertise the event around the local community, including a warning that, whilst appropriate safety measures had been taken, ‘active airfields can be hazardous’.
Pilot’s assessment of the cause
The pilot considered that the elevator trim was probably not set for takeoff. This may have caused the pitch-up when he relaxed the forward pressure on the control column as the aircraft became airborne. He considered another factor may have been his use of a cushion, which changed his perspective on takeoff, giving him the impression that the tail was higher than it actually was. The result was that the right wing stalled and directional control was lost.
ACCIDENT
Aircraft Type and Registration: DH82A Tiger Moth Tiger Moth, G-ANMY
No & Type of Engines: 1 De Havilland Gipsy Major 1H piston engine
Year of Manufacture: 1942 (Serial no: 85466)
Date & Time (UTC): 5 June 2016 at 1345 hrs
Location: Brimpton Airfield, Berkshire
Type of Flight: Private
Persons on Board: Crew - 1 Passengers - 1
Injuries: Crew - None Passengers - None
Others - 1 (Serious)
Nature of Damage: Propeller, wings, airframe, fencing and three
parked cars
Commander’s Licence: Light Aircraft Pilot’s Licence
Commander’s Age: 67 years
Commander’s Flying Experience: 20,852 hours (of which 115 were on type)
Last 90 days - 4 hours
Last 28 days - 2 hours
Information Source: Aircraft Accident Report Form submitted by the pilot and AAIB enquiries
Synopsis
Directional control was lost during takeoff and the aircraft collided with parked cars. Its wooden propeller shattered on contact with a safety barrier and a member of the public sitting in one of the parked cars was seriously injured by flying fragments of wood.
History of the flight
The aircraft had been participating in a ‘Fly-in’ at Brimpton Airfield, Berkshire, and had a pilot and passenger aboard. For departure it was manoeuvred to the grass Runway 07, using wing walkers because of the proximity of other aircraft. The weather conditions were good for flying, with a light north-easterly wind, and the grass strip was dry.
The pilot was using an extra seat cushion for the first time, because he found the view from the rear seat of the Tiger Moth “extremely limited” and wanted to achieve the best possible lookout. While taxiing he positioned the elevator trim fully aft, which is the normal position for ground manoeuvring of the aircraft. He recalled that, having reached the holding point, he completed some of the before takeoff checks but could not recall resetting the elevator trim.
Acceleration during the takeoff appeared normal to the pilot and he applied forward pressure on the control column to lift the aircraft’s tail off the ground. It then ran over a prominent hump in the in the runway surface, and became airborne.
Concerned that the aircraft might land again and pitch forward onto its nose, the pilot relaxed the forward pressure on the control column, intending to accelerate the aircraft close to the ground. However, the aircraft pitched up in a manner that the pilot found sudden and surprising. Shortly after becoming airborne, however, the pilot began to have difficulty maintaining directional control and, after attempting to regain control, aborted the
takeoff and closed the throttle. Almost simultaneously the aircraft’s right wing contacted a safety barrier approximately 15 m from the runway edge, and the aircraft swung to the right, through the barrier, and collided with parked cars. The wooden propeller shattered
on impact with the barrier and splinters of wood were scattered up to 35 m. A member of the public, who was sitting in one of the parked cars with the door open, suffered serious injuries when struck by fragments of the propeller. The pilot turned off the fuel and electrical switches and he and his passenger vacated the aircraft normally. The emergency services were quickly on scene.
When the AAIB inspected the aircraft shortly after the accident the elevator trim was found to be in the fully aft position.
The fly-in event
The fly-in is an annual event organised by the airfield to raise money for a local charity. The organisers consulted Civil Aviation Publication (CAP) 403 – ‘Flying Displays and Special Events: A Guide to Safety and Administrative Arrangements’, and identified ‘Runway departure during take-off or landing and collision with people or static aircraft’ as a hazard.
The risk assessment determined that the distance between the crowd line and the active runway was not ideal, so the organisers mitigated this by moving the runway as far from the crowd line as the available space allowed, fencing the crowd line with safety barriers. These actions, they considered, reduced the risk to an acceptable level. In addition the organisers distributed posters to advertise the event around the local community, including a warning that, whilst appropriate safety measures had been taken, ‘active airfields can be hazardous’.
Pilot’s assessment of the cause
The pilot considered that the elevator trim was probably not set for takeoff. This may have caused the pitch-up when he relaxed the forward pressure on the control column as the aircraft became airborne. He considered another factor may have been his use of a cushion, which changed his perspective on takeoff, giving him the impression that the tail was higher than it actually was. The result was that the right wing stalled and directional control was lost.
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'Incompetence' is a bit harsh - but a reminder to me not to be so quick to rush to judgment in future myself.
Knowing the pilot, which I do, I can see that would be hard to see written about oneself online.
He decided following that incident that the time had come to retire from flying, a decision which I respect.
Knowing the pilot, which I do, I can see that would be hard to see written about oneself online.
He decided following that incident that the time had come to retire from flying, a decision which I respect.
'Incompetence' is a bit harsh - but a reminder to me not to be so quick to rush to judgment in future myself.
Knowing the pilot, which I do, I can see that would be hard to see written about oneself online.
He decided following that incident that the time had come to retire from flying, a decision which I respect.
Knowing the pilot, which I do, I can see that would be hard to see written about oneself online.
He decided following that incident that the time had come to retire from flying, a decision which I respect.
Given that a written checklist in the cockpit of a Tiger would be uncommon and that all checks would be done by memory, I can sympathise with the pilot. There but for the grace of whoever...
The lead up to take off was not standard, tight taxi requiring wing walkers and with him sitting at a new seat height (for a tail dragger TO where attitude perception is far more critical than aircraft with a front propeller protection strut, that can be a big issue) etc all meaning his normal rhythm and preparation would be interrupted and he would be distracted.
Failing to trim correctly for TO was an error yes but I can't throw stones.
I have made similar oversights on more than one occasion - fortunately the bits of swiss cheese didn't line up for me like it did for him.
I read that report and think - if that can happen to a high time pilot then I need to be very aware of things that can put me out of my rhythm. Like him, I am human and make mistakes.
How do I avoid that? (and chanting from a paper checklist in the cockpit of a Tiger Moth would unlikely be the answer). My answer would be hearing stories like that and humbly reminding myself I could have be the bloke in the back seat. So thanks to the Tiger pilot for his honesty. Pilot error yes. Show me a pilot that isn't capable of that.
Pilot incompetence.......A 20,000 hour pilot should be able to do better
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I struggle to imagine beginning a take off with an aircraft out of trim becoming a reason for a crash. My time flying a Tiger Moth is limited, but I do not remember the trim being such that it could not be overcome by simply flying the plane, while you retrimmed it. The pilot's statement seems fuzzy to me.
Indeed, there but for the grace of god go I, and I have certainly had my share of self induced " 'should have checked that" moments, but happily none have been high risk OMG moments. In aeroplanes as simple as a Tiger Moth, there is little for a competent, current pilot to forget, that should raise the risk to that of accident before that pilot could make the required correction.
In my opinion, newer pilots who learn from these unhappy events, must first and foremost learn to fly the 'plane! Very few GA type cannot be flown for at least a brief time, safely, while horribly out of trim. That is primarily because most do not have a C of G range large enough to require enough trim to be able to make the control forces too high. It is the pilot's responsibility to learn to manage precise control while an aircraft is briefly out of trim, and retrim.
Indeed, there but for the grace of god go I, and I have certainly had my share of self induced " 'should have checked that" moments, but happily none have been high risk OMG moments. In aeroplanes as simple as a Tiger Moth, there is little for a competent, current pilot to forget, that should raise the risk to that of accident before that pilot could make the required correction.
In my opinion, newer pilots who learn from these unhappy events, must first and foremost learn to fly the 'plane! Very few GA type cannot be flown for at least a brief time, safely, while horribly out of trim. That is primarily because most do not have a C of G range large enough to require enough trim to be able to make the control forces too high. It is the pilot's responsibility to learn to manage precise control while an aircraft is briefly out of trim, and retrim.
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JammedStab, I'd have expected better from you. Irrespective of hours flown, you're only as good as your last flight. Too many high houred pilots have come to grief, even dying in the process. In full agreement with tmmorris and jonkster, a little humility, and hopefully the spectator is OK.
If you are crashing a plane because your seat is a little higher than normal then it really is time to retire.
I have flown two types of Moths and used a checklist every time. And on top of that, like in all aircraft, I check the killer items that might get you after the checklist is complete and prior to takeoff. Why? Because I am smart enough to know that I am stupid enough to miss items. On a Moth, trim, mags, fuel selector and controls still free should pretty much cover it, along with a final peek down the runway prior to adding power.
Seeing as I am hurting feelings today, I might as well continue. This has to be one of the stupidest statements in aviation when it comes to accidents caused by pilot error. Maybe understandable for a midair, or a mechanical failure that could not have been anticipated, etc, but not for an obvious screw-up.
Last edited by JammedStab; 27th May 2017 at 00:24.
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Why? Because I am smart enough to know that I am stupid enough to miss items.
So I'm posting here, to inspire newer pilots to fly better than I did when I was a newer pilot, and, still to avoid posting something which will be thrown back in my face when I finally have that stupid accident (which I hope to prevent forever). I don't take sole responsibility for the many things which I have done which could have resulted in an accident, but did not. I'll share the credit for a safe outcome, if I can figure out who with...
Last edited by 9 lives; 27th May 2017 at 01:29.
This has to be one of the stupidest statements in aviation when it comes to accidents caused by pilot error
Humans are not automatons, and it's part of human nature to err. That's why much study has gone into human nature, and processes put in place to try and obviate their limitations. Even checklists have their limitations, but are an attempt to address human limitations. A study of what occurs on airline flight decks showed over a series of 60 flights that hundreds of mistakes were made, many of them involving checklists.Obviously you are a skygod JammedStab, and I bow to your supreme status, depth of knowledge and wisdom. I'm thinking the only time you ever made a mistake was the occasion you thought you had made a mistake.
Or are you really a human, like the rest of us error prone individuals? 
Maybe it's different when you get there
Personally I think simply saying 'pilot error' does nothing to improve the situation or make the horrible outcomes of similar events any better.
In my opinion, trying to understand why pilot error occurs and working at ways to prevent future episodes is a far more honourable way to treat people impacted by past tragedy so to reduce the likelihood of things repeating.
One of the things I think aviation (at least in past times) can teach us is how it tends to look less at blame and punishment for individuals making mistakes and more at acknowledging those mistakes and learning from them.
If someone I know is hurt I can understand a desire for vengeance and punishment for the person whose error caused it (and would probably be at the front of the crowd asking for punishment) but if I am looking dispassionately at an event I am more interested in knowing how I can avoid it ever happening again because of my human frailty.
I have flown two types of Moths and used a checklist every time. And on top of that, like in all aircraft, I check the killer items that might get you after the checklist is complete and prior to takeoff. Why? Because I am smart enough to know that I am stupid enough to miss items. On a Moth, trim, mags, fuel selector and controls still free should pretty much cover it, along with a final peek down the runway prior to adding power.
A piece of paper or laminated plastic though can be a trap as well though. I have watched many pilots run through checklists more as a magic incantation to ward off evil than to really think about what they are doing and why.
Like most pilots though I do something similar to you in the way of mental checks prior to take-off however I know from my experience that is not foolproof when there are unexpected distractions to my normal rituals. If you are immune from that I am envious of your ability.
Seeing as I am hurting feelings today, I might as well continue. This has to be one of the stupidest statements in aviation when it comes to accidents caused by pilot error. Maybe understandable for a midair, or a mechanical failure that could not have been anticipated, etc, but not for an obvious screw-up.
There is another statement I would put up there with it (although I would not say stupid, just often unhelpful) is "the accident was due to pilot error" as if that is all we need to know and resolves the situation.
Of course it was pilot error! most accidents are!
Humans (well at least humans like me) make mistakes. Systems sometimes do not catch those mistakes. People get hurt.
A far more helpful explanation is how similar mistakes can be avoided and consequences mitigated in the future.
Simply saying 'pilot error' is more an observation than an explanation and doesn't help me.
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That has to be one of the stupidest statements ever made by an aviator, or indeed, a human. Humans are not automatons, and it's part of human nature to err.
Obviously you are a skygod JammedStab, and I bow to your supreme status, depth of knowledge and wisdom. I'm thinking the only time you ever made a mistake was the occasion you thought you had made a mistake.
Humans are not automatons, and it's part of human nature to err. Obviously you are a skygod JammedStab, and I bow to your supreme status, depth of knowledge and wisdom. I'm thinking the only time you ever made a mistake was the occasion you thought you had made a mistake.
Very nice. But you have provided absolutely no info on what you do to compensate for this which could save lives. I have provided some info on what I do to compensate for having the same problem. Check your killer items for that particular type just prior to takeoff. You will find that it is something that is a redundant procedure for years and thousands of flights until it possibly(or possibly not) saves the day.
Last edited by JammedStab; 27th May 2017 at 09:36.
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Personally I think simply saying 'pilot error' does nothing to improve the situation or make the horrible outcomes of similar events any better.
In my opinion, trying to understand why pilot error occurs and working at ways to prevent future episodes is a far more honourable way to treat people impacted by past tragedy so to reduce the likelihood of things repeating
In my opinion, trying to understand why pilot error occurs and working at ways to prevent future episodes is a far more honourable way to treat people impacted by past tragedy so to reduce the likelihood of things repeating
Regardless of whether you fly something big or small, check the various items that if not properly set can cause an accident. Imagine if the several jet aircraft that crashed due to flaps being retracted for takeoff, had pilots that were checking their killer items just prior to takeoff(ie Spanair-Madrid, Delta-DFW, Northwest-Detroit). Literally hundereds of lives saved.
One of the things I think aviation (at least in past times) can teach us is how it tends to look less at blame and punishment for individuals making mistakes and more at acknowledging those mistakes and learning from them.
If someone I know is hurt I can understand a desire for vengeance and punishment for the person whose error caused it (and would probably be at the front of the crowd asking for punishment) but if I am looking dispassionately at an event I am more interested in knowing how I can avoid it ever happening again because of my human frailty.
If someone I know is hurt I can understand a desire for vengeance and punishment for the person whose error caused it (and would probably be at the front of the crowd asking for punishment) but if I am looking dispassionately at an event I am more interested in knowing how I can avoid it ever happening again because of my human frailty.
I will defer to your Tiger Moth experience - I have only a little time in Tigers but I recall I found like many older taildraggers there was not much to see directly in front of them from the rear seat before getting the tail up and none of them had a written checklist in the cockpit. It was all mental check list.
A piece of paper or laminated plastic though can be a trap as well though. I have watched many pilots run through checklists more as a magic incantation to ward off evil than to really think about what they are doing and why.
Like most pilots though I do something similar to you in the way of mental checks prior to take-off however I know from my experience that is not foolproof when there are unexpected distractions to my normal rituals. If you are immune from that I am envious of your ability.
A piece of paper or laminated plastic though can be a trap as well though. I have watched many pilots run through checklists more as a magic incantation to ward off evil than to really think about what they are doing and why.
Like most pilots though I do something similar to you in the way of mental checks prior to take-off however I know from my experience that is not foolproof when there are unexpected distractions to my normal rituals. If you are immune from that I am envious of your ability.
I flew several old warbirds like the Moth a few years back. All had checklists. I personally made the one for the Tiger and others had made checklists for the other aircraft, so one need not accept that relatively simple aircraft like this don't need a checklist. More so for the prior to takeoff portion of flight rather than prior to landing in my opinion.
Last edited by JammedStab; 27th May 2017 at 09:31.
Some posts have made it sound like it is accepted reality that most Tiger Moth pilots are not using checklists which may be the case
In the course of observing 60 flights 899 deviations were observed, 194 in checklist use, 391 in monitoring, and 314 in primary procedures
The lesson to take away is that the average crew makes 15 errors/deviations per flight. Just hope the outcome is not as serious as that of the Helios 737 on your flight.
G-ANMY had a previous accident with a 16,000 hr pilot (29 on type)
https://assets.publishing.service.go...ANMY_10-08.pdf
The vast majority of accidents are due to human error in one form or another, and is why the study of "Human Factors" is now part and parcel of gaining a certificate - at least where I am.
Interested to see that the UK Tiger checklist calls for full aft trim whilst taxiing. Not done in my time. Trim was left central and the aircraft "flown" whilst taxiing, being cognizant of where the wind was relative to the aircraft, and positioning the controls accordingly. Taxiing downwind nose down elevator for example. Perhaps the RAF had their reasons for full aft trim when drawing up the checklist, but can't fathom why, unless it was to enhance the braking action of the tail skid. Some things get lost with the passage of time.
I think having a statement made on your piloting ability after something like this happens is hardly unfair although it seems to have raised the ire of one or two folks who likely never posted a word of compassion for the victim(or the owner of the aircraft)
Compassion for the victim and owner? You are severely lacking in compassion for the poor pilot who has found himself in this position. How do you think he feels? Do you not think he would like to wind the clock back?
Last edited by megan; 28th May 2017 at 03:39.
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Anyways, I think we have clarified clearly where our compassions are and there is no point discussing it any more.
On a much more important note, you said....
It sounds like an incident waiting to happen.
G-ANMY had a previous accident with a 16,000 hr pilot (29 on type)
https://assets.publishing.service.go...ANMY_10-08.pdf
https://assets.publishing.service.go...ANMY_10-08.pdf
A little bit of paranoia can go a long way in aviation.
Last edited by JammedStab; 28th May 2017 at 13:06.
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Not nearly as much as that poor lady. I'm sure if some guy ran over your loved one due to poor driving technique, you would be thinking about the poor driver as well.
Anyways, I think we have clarified clearly where our compassions are and there is no point discussing it any more.
On a much more important note, you said....
I have never heard of this before. Is there some sort of benefit to it?
It sounds like an incident waiting to happen.
The earlier accident you provided a link to was also poor piloting. If you have pools of water on areas of the grass runway, you better make sure to check the area you will use(and some extra area) thoroughly.
Anyways, I think we have clarified clearly where our compassions are and there is no point discussing it any more.
On a much more important note, you said....
I have never heard of this before. Is there some sort of benefit to it?
It sounds like an incident waiting to happen.
The earlier accident you provided a link to was also poor piloting. If you have pools of water on areas of the grass runway, you better make sure to check the area you will use(and some extra area) thoroughly.
Simple, the pilot made an error, compounded by getting airborne a touch early/slow, due to the large bump in the Brimpton runway.( I was present at the Event)
100 hrs. or 20000 hrs, it can happen to any of us.
I'm glad you are perfect and trust you never do the same.
It is not a bad idea even if the field is dry as animals have a tendency to dig holes in runways.
Concerning checklists, for the SE aircraft I fly - mostly Scout and 182 towplanes these days - I use memorized checklists. I will admit that I occasionally miss something but nothing that would kill me.
The most embarrassing one recently was that I didn't notice the previous pilot had turned the fuel Off and was surprised when the engine stopped after starting. Of course I should have twigged that something was wrong when I didn't get the usual resistance when operating the primer.
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JammedStab
Simple, the pilot made an error, compounded by getting airborne a touch early/slow, due to the large bump in the Brimpton runway.( I was present at the Event)
100 hrs. or 20000 hrs, it can happen to any of us.
I'm glad you are perfect and trust you never do the same.
Simple, the pilot made an error, compounded by getting airborne a touch early/slow, due to the large bump in the Brimpton runway.( I was present at the Event)
100 hrs. or 20000 hrs, it can happen to any of us.
I'm glad you are perfect and trust you never do the same.
Aside from the full nose-up trim which could be prevented by checking your killer items just prior to takeoff, you bring up another issue; a bumpy runway that can bounce you up in the air early at a slow airspeed.
I had this exact situation just two weeks ago at White Waltham(not exactly the smoothest of runways). Prematurely airborne at too low an airspeed on a soft field takeoff on an undulating runway. These things happen and one should know what to do. Lower the nose and accelerate in the ground effect. The aircraft may even touch down again as happened to me. It is not particularly pretty but if you pull back(or maybe if you have taken off with the trim fully aft and don't compensate), you will stall. And stall he did.
I'm afraid that a large bump on the runway should not be leading to a loss of control for a high time or even a private pilot. There is nothing wrong with touching down again. Unless you are taking off on a grass runway with pools of water on it as the previous accident pilot on type did. If your background experience has little or no operations from grass fields, getting instruction from an experienced instructor(along with finding information on-line, in accident reports, books, forums etc )would be good airmanship. There are many gotcha's as we have seen just on this thread. Holes, soft runways, undulations.
Here is another one...Landing on a nice sunny day on a short grass runway where braking will be needed. Best to wait for a while until the dew has dried before attempting it. Otherwise, you might just slide right off the end. Used to face this situation in a twin Cessna that I would take down to a 2000' runway for maintenance. I would plan for a mid-day arrival. And, I took off for the return flight home in the early morning when it was cool. The aircraft had long range tanks so I tried to deliver it with min fuel and pick up lots of return fuel at a nearby airport for the return flight.
Last edited by JammedStab; 28th May 2017 at 19:41.
