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Accidents and Close Calls Discussion on accidents, close calls, and other unplanned aviation events, so we can learn from them, and be better pilots ourselves.

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Old 30th Apr 2016, 12:16   #1 (permalink)

Nice-but-dim
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Firefly accident in North Yorkshire.

BBC reporting two casualties in an accident near Castle Howard, North Yorkshire this morning. http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-36176991

Last edited by timmcat; 30th Apr 2016 at 20:45.
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Old 30th Apr 2016, 12:44   #2 (permalink)
 
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Reliably informed its a Firefly, but not confirmed.
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Old 30th Apr 2016, 14:32   #3 (permalink)
 
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Very sad. My daughter and I both did lessons out of the home field, RIP.
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Old 30th Apr 2016, 14:46   #4 (permalink)
 
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Relatives were at the home airfield at the time.
Dreadful time for everyone there.
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Old 30th Apr 2016, 15:44   #5 (permalink)
 
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Sad news. Does anyone have any facts on what happened?

Last edited by anderow; 30th Apr 2016 at 18:51.
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Old 30th Apr 2016, 17:09   #6 (permalink)
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It seems to look sadly very similar to this:

G-BUUD crash

Terribly bad form from Telegraph to show the reg.

Condolences to the family

Last edited by GipsyMagpie; 30th Apr 2016 at 17:11. Reason: Wrong news agency quoted
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Old 30th Apr 2016, 17:29   #7 (permalink)
 
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A very sad day indeed, too close to home for comfort.
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Old 30th Apr 2016, 17:53   #8 (permalink)
 
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RIP v sad news.....

As an experienced firefly owner / operator of both the 160 / 200 & M260 along with many of the other guys on the mil forum - it is always advisable to wear parachutes when performing any aerobatic manouevres, it is also critical to have a full brief and ensure the levels and hard deck for level flight are adhered to, then if it still goes wrong - get out, float about and walk back!

The Firefly is a very safe aircraft and very safe to aerobat, however it will NOT suffer fools or anyone using incorrect techniques.... depending on the weight of the two occupants and the fuel in the 160 and depending on what direction they entered will depend on what happened but looking at photos available full left rudder is still applied possibly meaning a spin the right - going to the right if the engine was at tickover then occasionally it stops, especially if cold / carb icing potential - no real dramas at all - sort out the spin recovery first.... and then re-start the fan.

if you don't get the stick all the way forward to the stop and hold it there..... then it ain't coming out.....

AAIB are well versed and WILL give all the details in time...

Very sad day for all involved for sure and not a great few days for aviation especially after the Norway heli rotor head separation.

Dance with the clouds guys!
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Old 30th Apr 2016, 18:36   #9 (permalink)
 
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All the detail is out there on sites such as the Daily Mail. North Yorkshire aircraft crash sees two casualties feared near Castle Howard | Daily Mail Online

Road fatalities are the same and it is one of the aspects of having the internet and mobile phones.

A very sad day for those involved.
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Old 30th Apr 2016, 18:55   #10 (permalink)
 
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It is always advisable to wear parachutes when performing any aerobatic manouevres...Couldn't agree more. Having worn a chute in the Bulldog when their spinning recovery was being questioned, I was horrified when a later civilian instructor decided to spin a PA28 in a shirt and tie. I made my thoughts very apparent. RIP people.
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Old 30th Apr 2016, 21:14   #11 (permalink)
 
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AK7274 is it anyone I know? The train driver.
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Old 30th Apr 2016, 21:48   #12 (permalink)
 
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No mate. No one you know.

As a member who was at the airfield at the time of the accident, I can categoricaly state that no one knows what happened. When the press tried to speak to me, I tried a diplomatic answer that didn't work, so as someone who was brought up in an environment where if hungry we ate our own young, resorted to stereotype and made my answer clearer.
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Old 30th Apr 2016, 22:04   #13 (permalink)
 
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I wouldn't expect anything less dude
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Old 2nd May 2016, 09:48   #14 (permalink)
 
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Quote:
if you don't get the stick all the way forward to the stop and hold it there..... then it ain't coming out.....
BTDT. Scared the living daylights out of me the first time that happened. Not enough seat padding to comfortably get full forwards and only an extra shove against the restraint of the straps got it to come out. FULL and free.

Not saying that this was the issue here but I did learn a valuable lesson from this aircraft type.
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Old 2nd May 2016, 10:13   #15 (permalink)
 
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Slingsby Crash in Yorkshire

Crash plane had been "hired for aerobatics" (From York Press)

TWO men who were killed when their plane crashed near Castle Howard had planned to do some aerobatics, it is believed.

The pilot and a passenger of a yellow light aircraft died when it crashed in a field between Welburn and Bulmer at 10.40am on Saturday.

A Slingsby T67 Firefly, the plane was a two-seater built locally at Kirkbymoorside, and at least one report suggested it could have been attempting to make a crash landing.

The names of the dead have still to be released, but both were experienced flyers who had chartered the aircraft from the Full Sutton Flying Centre near York.

A spokesman at the centre said the two men had been planning to do a local flight and a “bit of aerobatics” – something the aircraft was designed to do.


And more here: Pair killed in Yorkshire light aircraft crash thought to be RAF pilots | UK news | The Guardian
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Old 2nd May 2016, 10:14   #16 (permalink)
 
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I don't know the Firefly, but the Chipmunk is mandated to carry a palcarded warning that 'spin recovery may require full forward stick'. And sometimes it does.
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Old 2nd May 2016, 12:19   #17 (permalink)
 
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Quote:
Having worn a chute in the Bulldog when their spinning recovery was being questioned, I was horrified when a later civilian instructor decided to spin a PA28 in a shirt and tie.
Was it the lack of chute or the PA28 that was the problem? It's difficult enough to get out of a stationary PA28 on the ground so I don't see many people would bother with a parachute.
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Old 2nd May 2016, 13:44   #18 (permalink)
 
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I don't (intentionally) spin an aircraft without wearing a parachute. That was after being given a bit of advice from the boss of ETPS some years back.
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Old 2nd May 2016, 14:25   #19 (permalink)
 
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Very sad. Heartfelt commiserations to all involved.

If I read the registration correctly, I flew it back in 1988-89 when it was with Trent Air Services at Cranfield.

RIP
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Old 2nd May 2016, 16:10   #20 (permalink)
 
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No comment on this accident as we don't know the facts until AIB has reported.

Done loads of spinning in the firefly (and other types) and recovery never a problem so long as the correct recovery procedure is followed and the aircraft is within CG and weight limits and fuel is balanced.

"Move the control column (centrally) forward until the rotation ceases".

If you only move the control column to a central position the a/c will go high rotational but if you then continue with forward column movement (if necessary to the forward stop) the aircraft will always recover.

The rate of rotation increases due to conservation of angular momentum - as the a/c starts to spin in a smaller radius the rotation rate increases to maintain momentum. Assuming you are following the correct recovery procedure this is an indication that the a/c is in the process of recovering.
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