Personal Protective Equipment - wear it!
Aviator Extraordinaire
Join Date: May 2000
Location: Oklahoma City, Oklahoma USA
Age: 76
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When I was young and bullet proof I as well did a lot of stupid things in aircraft and was lucky enough to survive.
Single night IFR.
Single engine night IFR/VFR over mountainous terrain.
And of course single engine day/night/IFR/VFR over water.
So I have no right to tell people not to do as I did, but there was no way in hell I'd ever do that again after I had about 2,000 hours. The risk was not worth it.
As I am retired now there is no way in hell I'd ride in a single engine aircraft in the conditions as above, turbine or piston.
Single night IFR.
Single engine night IFR/VFR over mountainous terrain.
And of course single engine day/night/IFR/VFR over water.
So I have no right to tell people not to do as I did, but there was no way in hell I'd ever do that again after I had about 2,000 hours. The risk was not worth it.
As I am retired now there is no way in hell I'd ride in a single engine aircraft in the conditions as above, turbine or piston.
When I was young and bullet proof I as well did a lot of stupid things in aircraft and was lucky enough to survive.
Single night IFR.
Single engine night IFR/VFR over mountainous terrain.
And of course single engine day/night/IFR/VFR over water.
So I have no right to tell people not to do as I did, but there was no way in hell I'd ever do that again after I had about 2,000 hours. The risk was not worth it.
As I am retired now there is no way in hell I'd ride in a single engine aircraft in the conditions as above, turbine or piston.
Single night IFR.
Single engine night IFR/VFR over mountainous terrain.
And of course single engine day/night/IFR/VFR over water.
So I have no right to tell people not to do as I did, but there was no way in hell I'd ever do that again after I had about 2,000 hours. The risk was not worth it.
As I am retired now there is no way in hell I'd ride in a single engine aircraft in the conditions as above, turbine or piston.
So I guess you are right about the risk being too big but it is not getting bigger in night VFR ... And yes I realize about the consequences of the things going wrong.
Feel free to ignore the comment because I think I gave an answer.
Aviator Extraordinaire
Join Date: May 2000
Location: Oklahoma City, Oklahoma USA
Age: 76
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I have a very very small experience flying on single engine four seaters and once I had to fly to an island some 3.5 hours away on a C172. The night before I has hesitant (it meant to be fun) but then I thought it over and realized the engine does not know what it flies over. I did anyway I met another ppruner and I repeated the trip some years later on an A320.
So I guess you are right about the risk being too big but it is not getting bigger in night VFR ... And yes I realize about the consequences of the things going wrong.
Feel free to ignore the comment because I think I gave an answer.
So I guess you are right about the risk being too big but it is not getting bigger in night VFR ... And yes I realize about the consequences of the things going wrong.
Feel free to ignore the comment because I think I gave an answer.
As for the engine not knowing what it is flying over, that really makes no sense. If an engine is going to quit, it will quit. It is up to the pilot to assure that if and when an engine does quit, that the aircraft is in a position where a safe, even off airport, landing can be achieved. This applies to multi-engine aircraft as well.
Aircraft and engines can be replaced, people cannot.
Oh, and in my spare time I was an NTSB Aircraft Accident Investigator (from 1995), now retired. So I have more than a just casual interest in this subject.
Thank you.
Join Date: Oct 2001
Location: Vancouver Island
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When I was young and bullet proof I as well did a lot of stupid things in aircraft and was lucky enough to survive.
Single night IFR.
Single engine night IFR/VFR over mountainous terrain.
And of course single engine day/night/IFR/VFR over water.
So I have no right to tell people not to do as I did, but there was no way in hell I'd ever do that again after I had about 2,000 hours. The risk was not worth it.
As I am retired now there is no way in hell I'd ride in a single engine aircraft in the conditions as above, turbine or piston.
Single night IFR.
Single engine night IFR/VFR over mountainous terrain.
And of course single engine day/night/IFR/VFR over water.
So I have no right to tell people not to do as I did, but there was no way in hell I'd ever do that again after I had about 2,000 hours. The risk was not worth it.
As I am retired now there is no way in hell I'd ride in a single engine aircraft in the conditions as above, turbine or piston.
A lot of my flying was in the higher risk area, 7 years crop dusting both fixed and rotary wing, 15 years heavy water bomber Captain and 8 years as a airdisplay pilot in airshows all over Europe.
At least in those situations I had options if an engine quit.
Far more than if I had no engine at night, IFR in the mountains or God forbid over very cold water.
I am also now retired and still alive and able to enjoy traveling all over in my big diesel motor home, in fact I am sitting in it right now just south of Sacramento Ca.
And I managed to fly over 30,000 hours all accident free and no violations of the rules. ( They never caught me.
)
Aviator Extraordinaire
Join Date: May 2000
Location: Oklahoma City, Oklahoma USA
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I am also now retired and still alive and able to enjoy traveling all over in my big diesel motor home
My experience was charter at first (piston engine aircraft single and multi, up to Lear 24s), then mostly corporate flying, with ten years flying 727s for the government, that is when I went to NTSB Aircraft Accident school. Then retired from flying from corporate, Falcon 50EX and 900EX.
I envy you, you did the type of flying I always wanted to do. Sounds like you had a lot of fun in your career.
Oh, no violations either, like you said, they couldn't prove a thing.
Join Date: Oct 2001
Location: Vancouver Island
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It is a twin engine, a 380 HP Cummins in the rear and a 10,000 watt Cummins in the front. 
Hey the main thing is we survived, for sure following the magenta line can get boring.
The best flying for me was ag. flying which was how I started my career, nothing beats a Stearman on a nice warm summer morning the sound alone is to me what real flying is.
Hey the main thing is we survived, for sure following the magenta line can get boring.
The best flying for me was ag. flying which was how I started my career, nothing beats a Stearman on a nice warm summer morning the sound alone is to me what real flying is.
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Oxford, UK
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Water or trees? actually, a rooftop is better than either, there is a good chance you will be noticed and rescued. But a controlled flight at the slowest sustainable airspeed will probably save you if not the aircraft. Without an immersion suit properly zipped up you won't last long in water.
A while ago, a glider parked in treetops near the M40 caused traffic chaos until they had to lift it off with a helicopter....the occupants had to sit quietly in the glider for an hour before the fire department arrived and extracted them; during the hour, the newbie was persuaded to sign up for a week's course....
A while ago, a glider parked in treetops near the M40 caused traffic chaos until they had to lift it off with a helicopter....the occupants had to sit quietly in the glider for an hour before the fire department arrived and extracted them; during the hour, the newbie was persuaded to sign up for a week's course....
con-pilot we agree on the issues of consequences once the things go wrong.
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: N/W London
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So what's everyones views about wearing either a bone dome or some of the alternative head protection that is now available in vintage aircraft, for example a Cub where there is quite a lot of metal around you to head-butt if it goes wrong? It seems to me that there are very good reasons for doing so and whilst it is accepted in vintage 'warbirds', you would be the laughing stock of the flying club if you chose to do so in anything less than a P51 or Yak!
A bone dome? In a cub?
Errr, no.
It's got a perfectly good four point harness with sensible anchor points.
A rather good metal cage
So, no, no way.
Quite apart from looking like a pr***k
Errr, no.
It's got a perfectly good four point harness with sensible anchor points.
A rather good metal cage
So, no, no way.
Quite apart from looking like a pr***k
Join Date: Oct 2014
Location: with bosun Blue Sky and the jenny haniver "Hot Stuff"
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views about wearing either a bone dome
Don't care about looking stupid. Half of
looking like a pr***k
I've also got a four point harness
Have a good look around next time you're in town and see how many people have artificial limbs. You may notice one or two, now have a look for those who have an artificial head...bet you don't see any. Wearing a helmet in a GA aircraft may seem a bit extreme, but at the end of the day you can survive with out arms or legs but you'll be struggling without a head..even a moderate to hard bump on the bonce can kill, or damage the brain.
On the subject of survival and cold water immersion I understand that there is a GA sea survival conference this weekend at Teeside, UK which will discuss this subject in some depth (ahem)..
On the subject of survival and cold water immersion I understand that there is a GA sea survival conference this weekend at Teeside, UK which will discuss this subject in some depth (ahem)..
Last edited by Stitchbitch; 31st Mar 2016 at 11:22.
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: 2nm from Old Warden
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I'm considering a trip to the Channel Islands in May with my wife, and this very issue has been in mind. How I feel about risking my life is one thing (I've done a number of quite dangerous sports over the years, including racing motorbikes in very remote areas) but risking my wife's life is another thing entirely.
Like most passengers, she will have at best a sketchy understanding of the risks (or lack of risks) on any given flight. It's part of the enormous responsibility we have as pilots to make the right decisions for those who wish to fly with us.
Crossing the English Channel, I can mitigate the risk significantly by route and altitude selection. I suppose I could do the same by a significantly inefficient routing to the CI. But a trip to the Isle of Man or Republic of Ireland is a different thing entirely. This is a very good thread by the way.
Like most passengers, she will have at best a sketchy understanding of the risks (or lack of risks) on any given flight. It's part of the enormous responsibility we have as pilots to make the right decisions for those who wish to fly with us.
Crossing the English Channel, I can mitigate the risk significantly by route and altitude selection. I suppose I could do the same by a significantly inefficient routing to the CI. But a trip to the Isle of Man or Republic of Ireland is a different thing entirely. This is a very good thread by the way.
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: Wor Yerm
Age: 68
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I always use the simple things like ear plugs, gloves, eye wear, proper shoes etc. My HiViz jacket though is truly amazing. Since I've been wearing it I've not once been attacked by crocodiles, spontaneously combusted nor been mugged. I've nearly been run over a few times but wearing it means I can (and bloody will) sue for full compo if I do. Box ticking (or bollox tickling) safety.
PM
PM
Join Date: Oct 2013
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I recently (early April) took a trip to France and the CI in a PA28. I had been twice before to L2k and Deauville. On the way out we crossed the shortest distance at 6500ft which left us only a few seconds out of gliding distance. Similarly heading into the CI zone from France we took a circuitous route from Dinard to fly along the coast to the north before crossing at a requested and granted 5000ft again giving us minimal time out of gliding range.
On the way back we were delayed a couple of days by weather in Guernsey and whilst there wasn't too much get-home-itis we did want to leave. On the day of departure I was faced with a choice of a clear run across the Channel with 2000ft cloud at Southampton, or sketchy weather in Northern France. I chose the Channel (we wore life jackets and PLB but had no raft). Jersey zone allowed me 5000 ft inside the zone and I elected to avoid flying under the class A corridor and instead thread the needle between the danger area and the class A (thanks skydemon) at FL80. Needless to say the engine didn't quit and we arrived back safely although in sporadic IMC from Isle of Wight to Elstree - glad of the IR(R).
As people have mentioned attitude to risk is personal. The extra time to fly the shortest water crossing for me was around 30 minutes but the weather was sketchier. Often for L2K it might only be 5 mins and I'll happily spend the extra money for less time over water. I will also probably invest in a raft and some immersion training.
Happy landings.
On the way back we were delayed a couple of days by weather in Guernsey and whilst there wasn't too much get-home-itis we did want to leave. On the day of departure I was faced with a choice of a clear run across the Channel with 2000ft cloud at Southampton, or sketchy weather in Northern France. I chose the Channel (we wore life jackets and PLB but had no raft). Jersey zone allowed me 5000 ft inside the zone and I elected to avoid flying under the class A corridor and instead thread the needle between the danger area and the class A (thanks skydemon) at FL80. Needless to say the engine didn't quit and we arrived back safely although in sporadic IMC from Isle of Wight to Elstree - glad of the IR(R).
As people have mentioned attitude to risk is personal. The extra time to fly the shortest water crossing for me was around 30 minutes but the weather was sketchier. Often for L2K it might only be 5 mins and I'll happily spend the extra money for less time over water. I will also probably invest in a raft and some immersion training.
Happy landings.
