subsonicsubic

Please don't delete this mods.

I honestly thing this accident forum detracts from the Private Flying forum. I'd really like to hear other opinions on this but I liked discussing GA accidents / incidents within the GA forum.


What do others think?

DeltaV

I know what you mean and have some sympathy with your view but I'm guessing it might have been to save the mods having to continually move inappropriate threads to another forum.

Many of the posts in Accidents and Close Calls are not GA related at all, nor yet are they even close to the light end of the GA spectrum but still many might have been posted in Private Flying with its sub-bar of 'LAA/BMAA/BGA/BPA The sheer pleasure of flight'. This way you do get to read about and comment upon them without having to dig them out of one of the many 'Professional' forums.

9 lives

I find that accidents, in whatever size or role of aircraft often tend to have common themes. I certainly agree that a fan letting go on an A380 jet has no relevance in GA world, but discussion on how the crew dealt with it might.

Accidents are frequently the result of decision making (not so good, or at least better than the worse outcome), and I think that discussing the pilot decision making can be very enlightening for everyone.

Some newer pilots who find themselves in this corner of PPRuNe are aspiring to bigger things, so taking a broad spectrum of tribal knowledge with them can't be bad. As this forum is in the "Non Airline Forums" group, it seems to not intend to attract the "big" commercial or military events, but to me, everything else probably has merit.

I think of the Shoreham Hunter crash. In my opinion, the type of aircraft involved was much less a factor than the underlying factors - its size just cut a larger swath, and its legacy drew attention. Letting a loop go wrong (if that was the cause) can happen in many smaller types, and the disciplines of public performance flying should be on the mind of most GA pilots.

I'm pleased with the A&CC forum....

funfly

I totally agree.

There is a place for a generic 'accidents and Close Calls' forum but GA accidents that happen are definitely part of the Private Flying forum as they happen.

Rename the 'Accidents and Close calls' to reflect that it is a general discussion about 'events' rather than a forum to announce any breaking news and subsequent discussions about an ongoing event.

Return to allowing Breaking news and subsequent discussions back in the Private Flying forum please.

Pilot DAR

More opinions please....

Would those expressing an opinion please consider the posts in this introduction thread:

http://www.pprune.org/accidents-clos...ion-forum.html

The comments thus far are noted, and will be considered.

No worries....

Maoraigh1

It's just an extra 2 clicks compared to any thread being on the Private Flying forum.

megan

You can please some of the people all the time

You can please all the people some of the time

You can't please all the people all of the time

Keep it as is is my vote. Many thanks DAR for your time and effort.

The Old Fat One

You are completely correct and I was thinking of posting exactly the same thing yesterday.

I din't have time right now but in a day or so I'll post my reasons for saying so, meanwhile well done for starting this thread.

Genghis the Engineer

Accidents get discussed all over PPRUNE. However, the value of this forum is that it creates a common talking shop spanning fixed/rotary/light/heavy/civil/military. ..

That doesn't exist elsewhere and whilst people will keep discussing helicopter prangs in rotorheads, microlight crashes in Private Flying, and so on - this does provide a useful common ground where we can all learn from, and contribute to, each other's discussions.

It's not perfect, and never will be, but it adds value in my opinion.

One possible improvement might be a sticky thread linking to discussions about accidents elsewhere on Pprune?

G

funfly

Talking about crashes, Genghis thought you looked pretty dapper on the news the other day

Genghis the Engineer

I try. Some might say that I'm very trying!

More seriously, I hope that I can do a bit of good by explaining what is going on, and any immediate implications and heading off too much unhelpful conjecture.

G

The Old Fat One

Without repeating what I said on the following link...

http://www.pprune.org/accidents-clos...ml#post9113936 post 10

...it is my opinion that the forum that needs the healthiest, full, open, frank and continuous discussion of accidents, often strays away from it.

I hold that opinion, because - from the aviators perspective - the purpose of accident discussion and reporting is to educate and inform. Without being in anyway derogatory about GA, it is where the biggest variance in piloting standards and abilities exists and therefore where training and reported experience will provide the most benefit.

For all sorts of different reasons, GA accident reports get a more emotive response than those in professional sectors. It is for precisely that reason that anything that diverts traffic away from accident discussion is a very bad thing.

GA accident discussions should be in the main private flyers forum, up close and personal in every users face, just as they are in the professional forums.

That's part of flying folks.

Posted purely for the purpose of trying to help somebody somewhere avoid an accident.

And for no other purpose whatsoever.

Blues&twos

My own feeling is that the separation of accidents from the Private Flying forum psychologically suggests that they are separate subjects...you can enjoy yourself exchanging views and stories in the sunny world of incident-free GA or you can head over to the dark side in the Accidents thread if you're a bit morbid.
I have always enjoyed the Private Flying forum because of the good mixture of subjects covered, including a substantial helping of "keeping yourself out of trouble" and some interesting discussions of incidents. I think fewer people will visit an Accidents only thread.
To me anyway, it feels like a backward step.

EDITED to say that The Old Fat One posted as I was typing and I agree that accident discussions should be

9 lives

I don't accept the notion that the "visibility" of accident discussions is reduced because it is here, rather than on Private flying. If pilots are of a mind to review and discuss accidents, they can come here to do it. Once they come to this forum presuming they are inquisitive, they will find other very worthy safety minded discussions too, which they might not have encountered in PF. If pilots can't find this forum from PF, while they are considering a discussion about accidents, well, honestly, they're not trying very hard!

Your growth as a safe pilot requires some effort, nothing good comes for free. If the effort here is a couple of clicks to come to this forum, after browsing the PF forum, is that too much? You switch your mindset from banter about GA, to some serious safety minded thinking for a few minutes - it works for me....

Big Pistons Forever

I am with Step on this. The subject is important enough to warrant its own venue.

The Old Fat One

It is precisely because the subject is so important that is should not have its own venue.

Do a little pprune research. Check out some of the comments on accident threads on the PF forum. Look at one or two accident threads since this forum has started up.

You will see two trends...

Less traffic and fewer of the "emotive" comments I mentioned.

The pilots of "a mind to review and discuss accidents" are coming here...it is one who are not of that mind that we should be worried about.

Pilot DAR

The pilots who are not drawn to a discussion and learning opportunity about accidents, and will not come to this forum, are probably not so likely to spend much time learning from sporadic accident discussions in PF either. I find that "learning minded" pilots will go where they need to to get the information, because they are curious. This forum is not far from PF, and not too far to be found, by those looking....

My hope with this forum would be that a gathering of otherwise scattered events and discussion would broaden the interest in safe flying wisdom, as more information is "in your face" so to speak. Flying, even the nice bimble around on a calm evening, has a deadly serious side, which we sometimes overlook. The PF forum, for all of its many attributes can dilute that serious side in all the nice chatter, which is not not wrong, it's just the way it is, but the serious message can be camouflaged.

My hope is that when members come to the A&CC forum, they are "ready" to learn, and think safety, without the distractions of thinking about bimble. As the forum gets to be known, it I would hope it becomes the entry point to these discussions, and let PF be the "sheer pleasure of flight" place.

An accident is rarely the result of just one causal factor. There can be a lot of crossover of factors, so the prime factor in one accident can be secondary to another, but the more we recognize the prime factors (and there are many), the more we might be reminded that what we could think is a minor factor, was actually major for someone else, and we should think more about it!

ANY discussion here about how to make this a more effective forum is appreciated. Any discussion about how to present pilots with more safety information is important. I hope that these two grow together, though I'm considering all the comments objectively....