Light Aircraft crash at Blackbushe.
The Analog Kid
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It was very strongly thermic today (and yesterday) in the southern UK. I was flying (paragliding) most of the afternoon and the cores were 1000ft/min and tiny. Doesn't make for very stable approaches.
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Hi Dve R. Interesting graphic. Where does it come from please?
The vertical profile doesn't look odd to me. Looks like a regular rate of descent unless I've missed something. What is your interpretation?
It would appear from that graphic that it was a tight circuit though. I know the Phenom is a small aircraft but it's wings level on final quite late according to that graphic.
The vertical profile doesn't look odd to me. Looks like a regular rate of descent unless I've missed something. What is your interpretation?
It would appear from that graphic that it was a tight circuit though. I know the Phenom is a small aircraft but it's wings level on final quite late according to that graphic.
The vertical profile doesn't look odd to me. Looks like a regular rate of descent unless I've missed something. What is your interpretation?
The Phenom is approximately 1250' AMSL when it's roughly abeam the motorway junction (top LH of picture), but by the time it's over the scrubland just S of the A30, it has climbed to 1750' (EGLK elevation: 325'). Fifteen seconds later, it's descending at 3000 fpm as it intercepts the runway heading.
The data is from an in-house ADS-B monitoring project that my company runs, mainly focussing on LHR arrivals and departures, but by default we capture data from other flights in the vicinity.
And yes, before anyone asks, the AAIB have been made aware of the existence of the data.
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Rushed apprach
The graphical plot is very interesting. Looks like a very tight circuit (although the plot does not give speed data). Out of interest what was the QNH/QFE. That climb at the base leg could be trying to bleed back the speed or might be a correction for altimeter mis-setting. I watched a student pilot do same thing under pressure once.
Last edited by Heli-phile; 1st Aug 2015 at 05:13.
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rushed approach
Dave Reid. I am sorry that you can change the vertical scale – with my little ruler I had satisfied myself that the aircraft had pretty well settled at the SOP circuit height of 1200 ft QFE (1525 ft QNH) on the deadside. Now I do not know !
To say the least, this was an untidy circuit.
Heli-phile. I would not have thought the circuit was too tight. Dave may give us the real detail, but we might judge that the aircraft was perhaps twice as fast on the deadside of the airfield as on its final approach. In other words the pilot seems to have given himself a reasonably gentle finals turn. Knowing that the railway on his right is the airspace boundary between Blackbushe and Farnborough, the pilot is nicely positioned downwind so he can see it.
To say the least, this was an untidy circuit.
Heli-phile. I would not have thought the circuit was too tight. Dave may give us the real detail, but we might judge that the aircraft was perhaps twice as fast on the deadside of the airfield as on its final approach. In other words the pilot seems to have given himself a reasonably gentle finals turn. Knowing that the railway on his right is the airspace boundary between Blackbushe and Farnborough, the pilot is nicely positioned downwind so he can see it.
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It would appear confirmed that the aircraft was carrying members of the Bin Laden family:
Video: Four feared dead as private jet crashes into car auction - Telegraph
Video: Four feared dead as private jet crashes into car auction - Telegraph
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The landing distance available on RWY 25 is only 1059m, even for a Phenom 300 with typical reserves four people and typical Middle East luggage volumes, that is pretty short. What is the Runway End Safety Area for that end? If that runway is wet, ungrooved, even the Mustangs that live there shouldn't really be landing on a strip that size. You've had a Premier 1 come off the end before and an overweight King Air 200 crashed a decade ago or so there.
The Phenom 300 landing performance is notably better than the smaller 100 but with little over 1000m LDA, there's very little breathing space for error?
Seems strange that such a wealthy entity as a multi-billion turnover construction group would choose Blackbushe over Farnborough to save a few hundred pounds on fees unless their choice was more to do with privacy and anonymity with a distinct family name to deal with. Why else choose a very marginal runway length?
The Phenom 300 landing performance is notably better than the smaller 100 but with little over 1000m LDA, there's very little breathing space for error?
Seems strange that such a wealthy entity as a multi-billion turnover construction group would choose Blackbushe over Farnborough to save a few hundred pounds on fees unless their choice was more to do with privacy and anonymity with a distinct family name to deal with. Why else choose a very marginal runway length?
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"very marginal"
Oh come on, it's not quite in 1.43 territory but it can't really be described as "very marginal" for a private op.
This aircraft didn't just trundle off the end of a 1059m LDA runway when the unfactored LDR at max landing weight is in the 800m territory; it was obviously going at a fair rate of knots.
This aircraft didn't just trundle off the end of a 1059m LDA runway when the unfactored LDR at max landing weight is in the 800m territory; it was obviously going at a fair rate of knots.
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You assuming it landed on the numbers and not floated half down the runway before touching down .. LDA is exactly that, what's available! What you actually have available when wheels touch down is very different..
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I agree with fairflyer, very little margin here, RWY 25, THR 324 ft, LDA 1059m, and the quoted landing distance for this aircraft is 799m at MLW, Sea Level, ISA.
It would interesting what biz jet pilots are factoring into their landing distances especially taking into account single crew, VFR approach. As previously stated 1059m gives very little time to decide to go around or stop, worst still without P2 to make the call.
Again, it's difficult to know why such a wealthy family, doesn't opt for multi crew, with the added safety of two crew, less distraction from PAX in P2 seat, and Farnborough would have been a much better option based on the distances, and emergency resources.
It would interesting what biz jet pilots are factoring into their landing distances especially taking into account single crew, VFR approach. As previously stated 1059m gives very little time to decide to go around or stop, worst still without P2 to make the call.
Again, it's difficult to know why such a wealthy family, doesn't opt for multi crew, with the added safety of two crew, less distraction from PAX in P2 seat, and Farnborough would have been a much better option based on the distances, and emergency resources.
Last edited by athonite; 1st Aug 2015 at 08:42.
awqward.
I don't think it says anything at all about TAG - I think it says something about the people who make the choices for the aircraft concerned.
I assume you're referring to the costs at Farnborough. Those "Vastly superior facilities", that you refer to, cost vastly superior sums of money.
OH
(And no - I don't work for TAG).
I don't think it says anything at all about TAG - I think it says something about the people who make the choices for the aircraft concerned.
I assume you're referring to the costs at Farnborough. Those "Vastly superior facilities", that you refer to, cost vastly superior sums of money.
OH
(And no - I don't work for TAG).
The Phenom 300 has dual controls, but is certificated for optional single-pilot operation (with the RHS available, if required, for a 10th passenger).