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Light Aircraft crash at Blackbushe.

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Light Aircraft crash at Blackbushe.

Old 31st Jul 2015, 19:00
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There is an eye-witness account on the Flyer Forum.
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Old 31st Jul 2015, 19:32
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It was very strongly thermic today (and yesterday) in the southern UK. I was flying (paragliding) most of the afternoon and the cores were 1000ft/min and tiny. Doesn't make for very stable approaches.
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Old 31st Jul 2015, 20:09
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Interesting vertical profile during the latter part of the circuit:

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Old 31st Jul 2015, 20:33
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Hi Dve R. Interesting graphic. Where does it come from please?

The vertical profile doesn't look odd to me. Looks like a regular rate of descent unless I've missed something. What is your interpretation?

It would appear from that graphic that it was a tight circuit though. I know the Phenom is a small aircraft but it's wings level on final quite late according to that graphic.
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Old 31st Jul 2015, 21:16
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The vertical profile doesn't look odd to me. Looks like a regular rate of descent unless I've missed something. What is your interpretation?
It's not that easy to see on the graphic - I probably should have exaggerated the vertical scale to make it more obvious.

The Phenom is approximately 1250' AMSL when it's roughly abeam the motorway junction (top LH of picture), but by the time it's over the scrubland just S of the A30, it has climbed to 1750' (EGLK elevation: 325'). Fifteen seconds later, it's descending at 3000 fpm as it intercepts the runway heading.

The data is from an in-house ADS-B monitoring project that my company runs, mainly focussing on LHR arrivals and departures, but by default we capture data from other flights in the vicinity.

And yes, before anyone asks, the AAIB have been made aware of the existence of the data.
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Old 31st Jul 2015, 21:35
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Thanks Dave. Interesting data. Cheers.
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Old 31st Jul 2015, 22:03
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Dave, interesting stuff. Are you in a position to comment on groundspeed?
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Old 31st Jul 2015, 22:04
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Rushed apprach

The graphical plot is very interesting. Looks like a very tight circuit (although the plot does not give speed data). Out of interest what was the QNH/QFE. That climb at the base leg could be trying to bleed back the speed or might be a correction for altimeter mis-setting. I watched a student pilot do same thing under pressure once.

Last edited by Heli-phile; 1st Aug 2015 at 05:13.
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Old 31st Jul 2015, 22:36
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rushed approach

Dave Reid. I am sorry that you can change the vertical scale with my little ruler I had satisfied myself that the aircraft had pretty well settled at the SOP circuit height of 1200 ft QFE (1525 ft QNH) on the deadside. Now I do not know !

To say the least, this was an untidy circuit.

Heli-phile. I would not have thought the circuit was too tight. Dave may give us the real detail, but we might judge that the aircraft was perhaps twice as fast on the deadside of the airfield as on its final approach. In other words the pilot seems to have given himself a reasonably gentle finals turn. Knowing that the railway on his right is the airspace boundary between Blackbushe and Farnborough, the pilot is nicely positioned downwind so he can see it.
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Old 1st Aug 2015, 02:18
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Now the DM have picked up on the AvGen data and now using it to push their story.

Let's be cautious of these lazy journos picking at any opinion we might have.
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Old 1st Aug 2015, 04:58
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It would appear confirmed that the aircraft was carrying members of the Bin Laden family:

Video: Four feared dead as private jet crashes into car auction - Telegraph
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Old 1st Aug 2015, 05:49
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The landing distance available on RWY 25 is only 1059m, even for a Phenom 300 with typical reserves four people and typical Middle East luggage volumes, that is pretty short. What is the Runway End Safety Area for that end? If that runway is wet, ungrooved, even the Mustangs that live there shouldn't really be landing on a strip that size. You've had a Premier 1 come off the end before and an overweight King Air 200 crashed a decade ago or so there.

The Phenom 300 landing performance is notably better than the smaller 100 but with little over 1000m LDA, there's very little breathing space for error?

Seems strange that such a wealthy entity as a multi-billion turnover construction group would choose Blackbushe over Farnborough to save a few hundred pounds on fees unless their choice was more to do with privacy and anonymity with a distinct family name to deal with. Why else choose a very marginal runway length?
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Old 1st Aug 2015, 07:08
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"very marginal"

Oh come on, it's not quite in 1.43 territory but it can't really be described as "very marginal" for a private op.

This aircraft didn't just trundle off the end of a 1059m LDA runway when the unfactored LDR at max landing weight is in the 800m territory; it was obviously going at a fair rate of knots.
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Old 1st Aug 2015, 07:22
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Says a lot about TAG that someone would choose to land next door rather than use the far superior facilities at Farnborough....
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Old 1st Aug 2015, 07:24
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Do we know if the pilot was a professional or a family member?
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Old 1st Aug 2015, 07:50
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Is the Phenom 300 not a multi pilot type ? News outlets reporting only 1 pilot.
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Old 1st Aug 2015, 07:59
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You assuming it landed on the numbers and not floated half down the runway before touching down .. LDA is exactly that, what's available! What you actually have available when wheels touch down is very different..
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Old 1st Aug 2015, 08:01
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I agree with fairflyer, very little margin here, RWY 25, THR 324 ft, LDA 1059m, and the quoted landing distance for this aircraft is 799m at MLW, Sea Level, ISA.

It would interesting what biz jet pilots are factoring into their landing distances especially taking into account single crew, VFR approach. As previously stated 1059m gives very little time to decide to go around or stop, worst still without P2 to make the call.

Again, it's difficult to know why such a wealthy family, doesn't opt for multi crew, with the added safety of two crew, less distraction from PAX in P2 seat, and Farnborough would have been a much better option based on the distances, and emergency resources.

Last edited by athonite; 1st Aug 2015 at 08:42.
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Old 1st Aug 2015, 08:06
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awqward.

I don't think it says anything at all about TAG - I think it says something about the people who make the choices for the aircraft concerned.

I assume you're referring to the costs at Farnborough. Those "Vastly superior facilities", that you refer to, cost vastly superior sums of money.

OH
(And no - I don't work for TAG).
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Old 1st Aug 2015, 08:16
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Originally Posted by Cows getting bigger
Dave, interesting stuff. Are you in a position to comment on groundspeed?
Groundspeed over the threshold was 149 kts. IAS and ROD (both as of a couple of seconds previously) were 154 kts and approximately 1900 fpm (baro and inertial ROD readouts differ slightly). Height was roughly 400' AMSL (75' AAL) after correction for the QNH of 1017.


Originally Posted by buzzc152
Is the Phenom 300 not a multi pilot type ? News outlets reporting only 1 pilot.
The Phenom 300 has dual controls, but is certificated for optional single-pilot operation (with the RHS available, if required, for a 10th passenger).
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