Go Back  PPRuNe Forums > Flight Deck Forums > Accidents and Close Calls
Reload this Page >

Communicate, Navigate, Aviate and crash...

Accidents and Close Calls Discussion on accidents, close calls, and other unplanned aviation events, so we can learn from them, and be better pilots ourselves.

Communicate, Navigate, Aviate and crash...

Old 21st Jul 2015, 10:47
  #21 (permalink)  
Moderator
 
Join Date: Feb 2000
Location: UK
Posts: 14,234
Received 52 Likes on 28 Posts
Originally Posted by Big Pistons Forever
The problem here was the Tomahawk pilot didn't push the nose over so the aircraft did not stall and spin, the only action he did was push the transmit button. Yes alerting airport services is a good idea but it has to happen after you fly the airplane. In this case what could have been a simple forced landing ahead turned into a stall spin tragedy.

I have to wonder if this is not a result of instruction that placed more emphasis on talking on the radio instead of the imperative of lowering the nose after an EFATO and flying the aircraft to a controlled touchdown....
I disagree - having spent considerable professional time analysing that accident.

It was on the easterly runway - which is seldom used, as the winds in Britain are usualy westerly - so he had a poor mental picture of the area, which was quite heavily built up. He also had a largish passenger sat in the right hand seat.


The best fields were to the right, but I don't think he was fully aware of them because of unfamiliarity and view. So, he was turning left towards an area of open ground that he could see but the aircraft couldn't make - he tried to stretch the glide and spun in.

Even then, evidence is that if the fuel hadn't burned, he'd have survived.


Also I've had an EFATO, where being a well trained aviator, I was able to fly and position the aircraft, I made a simultaneous radio call. Pilots are clever like that, and there's no evidence that this chap didn't do the same.



G
Genghis the Engineer is offline  
Old 21st Jul 2015, 10:53
  #22 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: In an ever changing place
Posts: 1,039
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
BPF
The problem here was the Tomahawk pilot didn't push the nose over so the aircraft did not stall and spin, the only action he did was push the transmit button. Yes alerting airport services is a good idea but it has to happen after you fly the airplane. In this case what could have been a simple forced landing ahead turned into a stall spin tragedy.
Take a look at google earth, there is nothing simple about conducting a forced landing from low altitude of that runway due to the urban build up. Yes there are options for a landing but in the height of the moment ?
Above The Clouds is offline  
Old 11th Aug 2015, 11:41
  #23 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Do I come here often?
Posts: 898
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Bit of Thread Drift........

Back in the late 1990's I was a training captain on a fairly new type of aircraft (very new to my company) I was in the simulator with a new P2 and an experienced P1 doing transition to type. We were through the visual section (5 trips) and onto the IFR stuff, I had repeatedly had to remind them both to use the auto-pilot as much as possible during emergencies, but they still kept trying to do things the old fashioned way.

I gave them a SID off Aberdeen 16, 100' cloud base and 600m viz. just after going IMC I gave them low oil pressure on number 2 then gradually brought up the temperatures to critical level.

They handled the engine shut down perfectly, communicated with ATC (me) excellently and then flew into a mountain five miles west of the airport, because rather than couple up the auto-pilot in heading or NAV they had left it and the aircraft had drifted to the right in heading by 80 degrees, rather than turning left into the SID.

it was a great learning experience, when the sim stopped they were surprised and thought it was a sim problem until I brought up the visuals.......

The P2 recently did an OPC for me on the jet and we had a good laugh about his sim crash (P2 on OPC couldn't believe his ears when he heard some of the stories coming from the jump seat). The P1 is now one of the best training captains I've ever flown with.

Aviate, yes, navigate, yes, communicate, when you've got time.

SND
Sir Niall Dementia is offline  
Old 12th Aug 2015, 19:50
  #24 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Moray,Scotland,U.K.
Posts: 1,783
Received 5 Likes on 5 Posts
For VFR, "Aviate, Communicate, Problem-solve, Navigate if necessary", might be better.
Maoraigh1 is offline  
Old 20th Sep 2015, 14:23
  #25 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jun 2013
Location: Or-E-Gun, USA
Posts: 326
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Poor Flying Habits?

While there is a LOT missing from this story, some basic flying habits can never change. Talking to ATC, saying "I need some help here," or similar with 0/1 operating engines is NOT going to help him. How many times have we heard the variations on Avaiate, Navigate, Communicate? Sorry boys and girls, but this fellow gave up his chance when he pushed the transmit key.
He may have been an excellent physician, but apparently one with poor airmanship skills. Sorry to say this, but is is not a rare situation.
No Fly Zone is offline  
Old 30th Oct 2015, 22:48
  #26 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2000
Location: Pacific
Posts: 731
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
A PA28 does not normally have a carb ice problem due to the location of the carburetor in Piper/Lycoming engines. Very unusual for this to happen on takeoff, especially if no visible moisture and after a runup has been done. ???
boofhead is offline  
Old 31st Oct 2015, 00:05
  #27 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: May 2011
Location: uk
Posts: 579
Likes: 0
Received 1 Like on 1 Post
His engine after severe vibration, imploded
What characterises an engine imploding? It forcibly collapses upon itself?Shaped charges packed around it, perhaps? Has an engine ever imploded?
Equally how can a piston engine explode? Are explosives routinely fitted inside light aircraft engines?
Metal objects may break, even burst apart, but they can't explode without help from explosives.

Suggest all facts reviewed prior to posting..

Petard,own, by, hoist. Rearrange.
Wageslave is offline  

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Thread Tools
Search this Thread

Contact Us - Archive - Advertising - Cookie Policy - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service

Copyright © 2024 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.