Egyptair B772 Cockpit fire July 2011
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Egyptair B772 Cockpit fire July 2011
Accident: Egyptair B772 at Cairo on Jul 29th 2011, cockpit fire
Final report out: here
Very lucky it happened on the ground...
Final report out: here
Very lucky it happened on the ground...
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In fairness, according to the translated statements, the F/O testified that there were no source for fire or ignition in the cockpit prior to the fire; and the Captain explicitly testified that neither he nor the F/O were smokers.
3. Conclusions (p.66) [ ... ] The cause of the fire could not be conclusively determined. It is not yet known whether the oxygen system breach occurred first, providing a flammable environment or whether the oxygen system breach occurred as a result of the fire. Accident could be related to the following probable causes: 1. Electrical fault or short circuit resulted in electrical heating of flexible hoses in the flight crew oxygen system. (Electrical Short Circuits; contact between aircraft wiring and oxygen system components may be possible if multiple wire clamps are missing or fractured or if wires are incorrectly installed). 2. Exposure to Electrical Current
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The USN has an incident in its records where a Spanish peanut was accidentally dropped into an oxygen mask and resulted in a flash fire-fortunately not airborne.
Spontaneous combustion of oxygen systems in the presence of oils is not unknown.
Since the actual source of ignition appears to be speculative, I'll offer this as another possibility.
Spontaneous combustion of oxygen systems in the presence of oils is not unknown.
Since the actual source of ignition appears to be speculative, I'll offer this as another possibility.
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Here is an interesting one......
C-141 Vance AFB 1982
Synopsis: The highly experienced crew was returning to base from a stateside airdrop mission. During some horseplay, cigar ash was introduced into a crew oxygen hose. The resulting oxygen-fed fire ignited floor coverings and filled the cockpit with dense sooty smoke. After some difficulties, the crew was able to recover the aircraft with only minor injuries.
Returning from Pope to Norton after an airdrop mission, the pilot in the left seat decided to light a cigar. The pilot, in the jumpseat, complained and donned his oxygen mask. In response, the left seater covertly disconnected the jumpseater’s mask from the oxygen regulator hose, with the intent of putting smoke into the hose. Accidentally, lit cigar ash entered the oxygen regulator hose, before the hose was reconnected. The jumpseater smelled the smoke and selected "Emergency" on the oxygen regulator. When that didn’t help, he removed the mask to clear the smoke. When he disconnected the mask from the regulator hose, a "2-foot" sheet of fire leapt from the hose. It ignited an oxygen-fed fire that spread to the flooring. To put out the fire, the left seat pilot shut off the crew oxygen system. At about the same time, the engineer while switching to "MAX" airflow, inadvertently hit the bleed duct overheat test switch, shutting off the engine bleed valves and disabling the air-conditioning packs. The crew started a descent but soon became hypoxic. The crew oxygen system was again turned on. The fire reignited with a fireball large enough to melt components on the Flight Engineer’s panel. The crew eventually extinguished the fire, reset the bleed valves, and recovered to the nearest military base. Members of the crew suffered only minor injuries (but major embarrassment).
C-141 Lifetime Mishap Summary
C-141 Vance AFB 1982
Synopsis: The highly experienced crew was returning to base from a stateside airdrop mission. During some horseplay, cigar ash was introduced into a crew oxygen hose. The resulting oxygen-fed fire ignited floor coverings and filled the cockpit with dense sooty smoke. After some difficulties, the crew was able to recover the aircraft with only minor injuries.
Returning from Pope to Norton after an airdrop mission, the pilot in the left seat decided to light a cigar. The pilot, in the jumpseat, complained and donned his oxygen mask. In response, the left seater covertly disconnected the jumpseater’s mask from the oxygen regulator hose, with the intent of putting smoke into the hose. Accidentally, lit cigar ash entered the oxygen regulator hose, before the hose was reconnected. The jumpseater smelled the smoke and selected "Emergency" on the oxygen regulator. When that didn’t help, he removed the mask to clear the smoke. When he disconnected the mask from the regulator hose, a "2-foot" sheet of fire leapt from the hose. It ignited an oxygen-fed fire that spread to the flooring. To put out the fire, the left seat pilot shut off the crew oxygen system. At about the same time, the engineer while switching to "MAX" airflow, inadvertently hit the bleed duct overheat test switch, shutting off the engine bleed valves and disabling the air-conditioning packs. The crew started a descent but soon became hypoxic. The crew oxygen system was again turned on. The fire reignited with a fireball large enough to melt components on the Flight Engineer’s panel. The crew eventually extinguished the fire, reset the bleed valves, and recovered to the nearest military base. Members of the crew suffered only minor injuries (but major embarrassment).
C-141 Lifetime Mishap Summary
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JammedStab : may thanks for the link!
Very interesting as it show parts of the US investigation on incidents/accidents reported by other instances.
The Namibia collision with German AF Tu154 description here brings some new elements not avail in the German report.
Even if the " humanitarain " cargo it says it had carried was possibly slightly different in reality ...
Similarly the N'Jamena incident was reported by the French Air force very differently. I am quite sure the US story here is the more correct version.
The amateurism the USAF was having in those days when preparing missions outside the USA always amazed me.
Very interesting as it show parts of the US investigation on incidents/accidents reported by other instances.
The Namibia collision with German AF Tu154 description here brings some new elements not avail in the German report.
Even if the " humanitarain " cargo it says it had carried was possibly slightly different in reality ...
Similarly the N'Jamena incident was reported by the French Air force very differently. I am quite sure the US story here is the more correct version.
The amateurism the USAF was having in those days when preparing missions outside the USA always amazed me.
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ATCWatcher,
The amateurism of USAF briefings never amazed me until I went to a professional (major airline) outfit that didn't have tax dollars ad nauseum to replace crews and A/C....
You are right, Great Link...Thanks...
The amateurism of USAF briefings never amazed me until I went to a professional (major airline) outfit that didn't have tax dollars ad nauseum to replace crews and A/C....
You are right, Great Link...Thanks...
The fire triangle - heat - fuel - oxygen.
Kill one, the fire goes out, ergo all three were present in this case.
Oxygen doesn't burn per se, it supports fire - big time...
I know, teaching granny to suck eggs...
Kill one, the fire goes out, ergo all three were present in this case.
Oxygen doesn't burn per se, it supports fire - big time...
I know, teaching granny to suck eggs...
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Question: Was there any source for fire or ignition in the cockpit before the fire?
Answer: I would like to assure you that the F/O and I are not
Something was behind this answer
Answer: I would like to assure you that the F/O and I are not
Something was behind this answer
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Hmmm.... a randomly chosen two Egyptian adult males and neither of them being smokers? The odds of that would be up there with those same two Egyptian males being practising, kaftan-wearing Hare Krishnas.
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Truth is a rare commodity in Egyptian Air Accident reports. It may be absent in parts of this one too. Egyptair do seem to keep trashing serviceable aircraft, but it is not their fault apparently!
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Originally Posted by mini
The fire triangle - heat - fuel - oxygen.
Kill one, the fire goes out, ergo all three were present in this case.
Oxygen doesn't burn per se, it supports fire - big time...
I know, teaching granny to suck eggs...
Kill one, the fire goes out, ergo all three were present in this case.
Oxygen doesn't burn per se, it supports fire - big time...
I know, teaching granny to suck eggs...
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As an ex-Lightning pilot I have no recollection of 'sarnies' - normally too busy twiddling the B-Scope to eat.......................... but I believe a RN pilot had considerable facial burns from an oxy mask and, I think, some sort of greasy ointment on his face (well, you know these airy-fairies
)
)