Go Back  PPRuNe Forums > Flight Deck Forums > Accidents and Close Calls
Reload this Page >

Egyptair B772 Cockpit fire July 2011

Accidents and Close Calls Discussion on accidents, close calls, and other unplanned aviation events, so we can learn from them, and be better pilots ourselves.

Egyptair B772 Cockpit fire July 2011

Old 30th Nov 2012, 20:28
  #1 (permalink)  
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: May 2001
Location: CA
Posts: 47
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Egyptair B772 Cockpit fire July 2011

Accident: Egyptair B772 at Cairo on Jul 29th 2011, cockpit fire

Final report out: here

Very lucky it happened on the ground...
crispy banana is offline  
Old 30th Nov 2012, 20:30
  #2 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Choroni, sometimes
Posts: 1,975
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Cigarette?

Not uncommon in Egypt...
hetfield is offline  
Old 30th Nov 2012, 20:58
  #3 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Reading, UK
Posts: 14,418
Likes: 0
Received 4 Likes on 2 Posts
Cigarette?

Not uncommon in Egypt...
Thanks for the analysis. That's saved me the trouble of reading 172 pages of the report.
DaveReidUK is offline  
Old 30th Nov 2012, 23:06
  #4 (permalink)  
WET
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Canada
Posts: 5
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
In fairness, according to the translated statements, the F/O testified that there were no source for fire or ignition in the cockpit prior to the fire; and the Captain explicitly testified that neither he nor the F/O were smokers.
3. Conclusions (p.66) [ ... ] The cause of the fire could not be conclusively determined. It is not yet known whether the oxygen system breach occurred first, providing a flammable environment or whether the oxygen system breach occurred as a result of the fire. Accident could be related to the following probable causes: 1. Electrical fault or short circuit resulted in electrical heating of flexible hoses in the flight crew oxygen system. (Electrical Short Circuits; contact between aircraft wiring and oxygen system components may be possible if multiple wire clamps are missing or fractured or if wires are incorrectly installed). 2. Exposure to Electrical Current
WET is offline  
Old 30th Nov 2012, 23:15
  #5 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Europe
Posts: 136
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Pity really as nowhere does it mention a cigarette. It pays a lot of attention to a low pressure Oxygen pipe with an internal stainless steel coil.
daikilo is offline  
Old 1st Dec 2012, 03:00
  #6 (permalink)  
TWT
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: troposphere
Posts: 789
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
The Captain said that both he and the FO are non-smokers.
TWT is offline  
Old 1st Dec 2012, 06:33
  #7 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Not far from a big Lake
Age: 80
Posts: 1,461
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
The USN has an incident in its records where a Spanish peanut was accidentally dropped into an oxygen mask and resulted in a flash fire-fortunately not airborne.

Spontaneous combustion of oxygen systems in the presence of oils is not unknown.
Since the actual source of ignition appears to be speculative, I'll offer this as another possibility.
Machinbird is offline  
Old 1st Dec 2012, 10:17
  #8 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: FUBAR
Posts: 3,348
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Slightly worrying when no source can be found, possibly the same lack of clarity may be found in the recent B738 cockpit fire in Turkey.
captplaystation is offline  
Old 1st Dec 2012, 11:11
  #9 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: nowhere
Posts: 1
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Here is an interesting one......

C-141 Vance AFB 1982

Synopsis: The highly experienced crew was returning to base from a stateside airdrop mission. During some horseplay, cigar ash was introduced into a crew oxygen hose. The resulting oxygen-fed fire ignited floor coverings and filled the cockpit with dense sooty smoke. After some difficulties, the crew was able to recover the aircraft with only minor injuries.

Returning from Pope to Norton after an airdrop mission, the pilot in the left seat decided to light a cigar. The pilot, in the jumpseat, complained and donned his oxygen mask. In response, the left seater covertly disconnected the jumpseaterís mask from the oxygen regulator hose, with the intent of putting smoke into the hose. Accidentally, lit cigar ash entered the oxygen regulator hose, before the hose was reconnected. The jumpseater smelled the smoke and selected "Emergency" on the oxygen regulator. When that didnít help, he removed the mask to clear the smoke. When he disconnected the mask from the regulator hose, a "2-foot" sheet of fire leapt from the hose. It ignited an oxygen-fed fire that spread to the flooring. To put out the fire, the left seat pilot shut off the crew oxygen system. At about the same time, the engineer while switching to "MAX" airflow, inadvertently hit the bleed duct overheat test switch, shutting off the engine bleed valves and disabling the air-conditioning packs. The crew started a descent but soon became hypoxic. The crew oxygen system was again turned on. The fire reignited with a fireball large enough to melt components on the Flight Engineerís panel. The crew eventually extinguished the fire, reset the bleed valves, and recovered to the nearest military base. Members of the crew suffered only minor injuries (but major embarrassment).

C-141 Lifetime Mishap Summary
JammedStab is offline  
Old 1st Dec 2012, 13:40
  #10 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: FUBAR
Posts: 3,348
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Whoosh ! !

Amazing how badly you can screw up & live to (be forced to) tell the tale.
captplaystation is offline  
Old 1st Dec 2012, 14:40
  #11 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: Seat 0A
Posts: 8,282
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
C-141 Lifetime Mishap Summary
What a fascinating read.
Capn Bloggs is offline  
Old 1st Dec 2012, 14:46
  #12 (permalink)  
Pegase Driver
 
Join Date: May 1997
Location: Europe
Age: 72
Posts: 3,181
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
JammedStab : may thanks for the link!
Very interesting as it show parts of the US investigation on incidents/accidents reported by other instances.

The Namibia collision with German AF Tu154 description here brings some new elements not avail in the German report.
Even if the " humanitarain " cargo it says it had carried was possibly slightly different in reality ...

Similarly the N'Jamena incident was reported by the French Air force very differently. I am quite sure the US story here is the more correct version.
The amateurism the USAF was having in those days when preparing missions outside the USA always amazed me.
ATC Watcher is offline  
Old 2nd Dec 2012, 01:24
  #13 (permalink)  
Person Of Interest
 
Join Date: Jan 2000
Location: Keystone Heights, Florida
Age: 67
Posts: 842
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
ATCWatcher,

The amateurism of USAF briefings never amazed me until I went to a professional (major airline) outfit that didn't have tax dollars ad nauseum to replace crews and A/C....

You are right, Great Link...Thanks...
DownIn3Green is offline  
Old 2nd Dec 2012, 01:32
  #14 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Global Vagabond
Posts: 633
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
The fire triangle - heat - fuel - oxygen.

Kill one, the fire goes out, ergo all three were present in this case.

Oxygen doesn't burn per se, it supports fire - big time...

I know, teaching granny to suck eggs...
mini is offline  
Old 3rd Dec 2012, 18:19
  #15 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: May 2011
Location: Amman
Posts: 18
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Question: Was there any source for fire or ignition in the cockpit before the fire?

Answer: I would like to assure you that the F/O and I are not

Something was behind this answer
raraa is offline  
Old 3rd Dec 2012, 22:48
  #16 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: Limbo
Posts: 26
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Hmmm.... a randomly chosen two Egyptian adult males and neither of them being smokers? The odds of that would be up there with those same two Egyptian males being practising, kaftan-wearing Hare Krishnas.
Croozin is offline  
Old 4th Dec 2012, 07:30
  #17 (permalink)  

I Have Control
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: North-West England
Posts: 49
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Truth is a rare commodity in Egyptian Air Accident reports. It may be absent in parts of this one too. Egyptair do seem to keep trashing serviceable aircraft, but it is not their fault apparently!
RoyHudd is offline  
Old 4th Dec 2012, 08:25
  #18 (permalink)  
Per Ardua ad Astraeus
 
Join Date: Mar 2000
Location: UK
Posts: 18,579
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Originally Posted by mini
The fire triangle - heat - fuel - oxygen.

Kill one, the fire goes out, ergo all three were present in this case.

Oxygen doesn't burn per se, it supports fire - big time...

I know, teaching granny to suck eggs...
- it ain't necessarily so. Read about oil and grease and oxygen. A two-sided triangle.
BOAC is offline  
Old 4th Dec 2012, 09:38
  #19 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: England
Posts: 1,955
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Wasn't there a case of a lightning pilot who took his oxygen mask of to eat his sarnies? Next thing - toasties!
Lord Spandex Masher is offline  
Old 4th Dec 2012, 10:35
  #20 (permalink)  
Per Ardua ad Astraeus
 
Join Date: Mar 2000
Location: UK
Posts: 18,579
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
As an ex-Lightning pilot I have no recollection of 'sarnies' - normally too busy twiddling the B-Scope to eat.......................... but I believe a RN pilot had considerable facial burns from an oxy mask and, I think, some sort of greasy ointment on his face (well, you know these airy-fairies)
BOAC is offline  

Thread Tools
Search this Thread

Contact Us - Archive - Advertising - Cookie Policy - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service - Do Not Sell My Personal Information

Copyright © 2022 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.