Egyptair B772 Cockpit fire July 2011
Join Date: Jun 2009
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NotThe First 777
2/26/07. United 777. “Blankets “ignited” beneath floor. Blanket type – PET.
(A brief, see full text at URL http://www.aaib.gov.uk/cms_resources.cfm?file=/AAR%202-2009%20N786UA.pdf
Source; AAIB Report # 2/2009. United Airlines Boeing 777-222, registration N786UA at London Heathrow Airport on 26 February 2007. "Synopsis; The accident occurred during engine start after pushback from the stand. After the right generator came online an electrical failure occurred in the right main bus. The failure resulted in severe internal arcing and short circuits inside the two main power contactors of the right main bus. The heat generated during the failure resulted in the contactor casings becoming compromised, causing molten metal droplets to fall down onto the insulation blankets below (polyethylene terephthalate film (PET) ref pg 9. The insulation blankets ignited and a fire spread underneath a floor panel to the opposite electrical panel (P205), causing heat and fire damage to structure. The insulation blankets behind, below and opposite the P200 power panel had suffered significant fire damage and some sections had charred to ash”, ref pg1.12.1, pg 31.
‘PET’ is due for removal by 2016. Ref. To AD 2008-23-09.
7/6/04. United 777. “Thermal Damage” to Blankets in E&E bay.
(A brief, see full text at URL http://www.ntsb.gov/doclib/recletters/2007/a07_113_116.pdf
Source; NTSB Safety Recommendation Letter A-07-113-116, ref page 2. “The second reported event occurred on July 6, 2004. According to the operator, a post incident inspection performed by a maintenance technician revealed evidence of overheating on the secondary external power receptacle and thermal damage to an adjacent insulation blanket …….”
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(A brief, see full text at URL http://www.aaib.gov.uk/cms_resources.cfm?file=/AAR%202-2009%20N786UA.pdf
Source; AAIB Report # 2/2009. United Airlines Boeing 777-222, registration N786UA at London Heathrow Airport on 26 February 2007. "Synopsis; The accident occurred during engine start after pushback from the stand. After the right generator came online an electrical failure occurred in the right main bus. The failure resulted in severe internal arcing and short circuits inside the two main power contactors of the right main bus. The heat generated during the failure resulted in the contactor casings becoming compromised, causing molten metal droplets to fall down onto the insulation blankets below (polyethylene terephthalate film (PET) ref pg 9. The insulation blankets ignited and a fire spread underneath a floor panel to the opposite electrical panel (P205), causing heat and fire damage to structure. The insulation blankets behind, below and opposite the P200 power panel had suffered significant fire damage and some sections had charred to ash”, ref pg1.12.1, pg 31.
‘PET’ is due for removal by 2016. Ref. To AD 2008-23-09.
7/6/04. United 777. “Thermal Damage” to Blankets in E&E bay.
(A brief, see full text at URL http://www.ntsb.gov/doclib/recletters/2007/a07_113_116.pdf
Source; NTSB Safety Recommendation Letter A-07-113-116, ref page 2. “The second reported event occurred on July 6, 2004. According to the operator, a post incident inspection performed by a maintenance technician revealed evidence of overheating on the secondary external power receptacle and thermal damage to an adjacent insulation blanket …….”
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I worked on HF comms for various aircraft and that oxygen tube with a steel wire inside concerns me. If the crew had set frequency on the HF on the ground, the antenna tuner would have gone into tune mode telling the HF to transmit a carrier, exciting the entire fuselage with RF until a tune solution was set. RF currents in a fuselage are quite strange, and I remember having odd arcing in screen rooms when testing HFs with as little as 100 watts. A coiled wire would certainly have been enough to generate arcing in the tube filled with oxygen. I sent an analysis to Boeing but never heard back. The analysis of the coiled hose support causing a DC short does not make sense as there were not wiring bundles in contact with the hose. An ignition source excited by the HF in tune mode should certainly be looked at.
I worked in Cairo for five years. I would say the proportion of smokers in the working population, certainly among the professional classes, is about the same as in the UK.
If two BA pilots said they were non-smokers no-one would question the statement.
The racism displayed by some of the posters on PPRuNe continues to amaze me.
If two BA pilots said they were non-smokers no-one would question the statement.
The racism displayed by some of the posters on PPRuNe continues to amaze me.
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Lazer, I was a radio maintenance airdog for the C5 and C141 many years ago.
On the C5, I can remember seeing bad grounding at the antenna connector for that big, bad Avco HF R/T hung on a piss-poor rack in the tail.
You could see it - a coronal arc around the base of the PL-259 style connector. It would glow in the dark when your buddy hit the TX line in the avionics bay. You could draw it out farther and create an arc by placing the blade of a screwdriver against the R/T mount and edging it up to the faulted connector - but if you slipped a bit and lost the ground connection to the mount, you'd end up with burn on your hand.
Cheers!
Ray
On the C5, I can remember seeing bad grounding at the antenna connector for that big, bad Avco HF R/T hung on a piss-poor rack in the tail.
You could see it - a coronal arc around the base of the PL-259 style connector. It would glow in the dark when your buddy hit the TX line in the avionics bay. You could draw it out farther and create an arc by placing the blade of a screwdriver against the R/T mount and edging it up to the faulted connector - but if you slipped a bit and lost the ground connection to the mount, you'd end up with burn on your hand.
Cheers!
Ray
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I posted the C141 mishap to Fear of Landing some time ago and was intrigued to receive the following comment:
I was told this story by Greg Trebon, who was the C-141 check pilot in the jumpseat.
The co-pilot felt flame in his mask and tore it off his face and dropped it on the floor. It ignited his kit bag under his seat filling the cockpit with dense smoke, so dense you could not see the instruments.
The pilot punched the button for a 7700 squack and put the plane into an emergency dive to get to an altitude where they could breath without pressurization or the oxygen system.
After the fire started the pilot motioned to the flight engineer to turn the oxygen off to contain the fire. But once he did no one had oxygen to breath through their masks. He then motioned for the flight engineer to turn the oxygen back on. When he did an oxygen pressure regulator behind the pilots seat exploded sending shrapnel through out the cockpit.
It wounded Greg by sending shrapnel into his back.
Once they got to a lower altitude they could continue without the oxygen system. Once they got the cockpit cleared of smoke they landed at an Air National Guard Base in the middle of Kansas.
The after math of the accident included the cigar jokester being kicked out of the Air Force and the first officer being demoted a full rank for failing to check the intercom during the preflight checklist (the reason for the motioning signals).
The payload was a number of C-141 crews on their way home. The crew master told the flight crew that he didn’t know what was going on, but he was prepared to keep sending a new crew to the cockpit until things were in order.
The co-pilot felt flame in his mask and tore it off his face and dropped it on the floor. It ignited his kit bag under his seat filling the cockpit with dense smoke, so dense you could not see the instruments.
The pilot punched the button for a 7700 squack and put the plane into an emergency dive to get to an altitude where they could breath without pressurization or the oxygen system.
After the fire started the pilot motioned to the flight engineer to turn the oxygen off to contain the fire. But once he did no one had oxygen to breath through their masks. He then motioned for the flight engineer to turn the oxygen back on. When he did an oxygen pressure regulator behind the pilots seat exploded sending shrapnel through out the cockpit.
It wounded Greg by sending shrapnel into his back.
Once they got to a lower altitude they could continue without the oxygen system. Once they got the cockpit cleared of smoke they landed at an Air National Guard Base in the middle of Kansas.
The after math of the accident included the cigar jokester being kicked out of the Air Force and the first officer being demoted a full rank for failing to check the intercom during the preflight checklist (the reason for the motioning signals).
The payload was a number of C-141 crews on their way home. The crew master told the flight crew that he didn’t know what was going on, but he was prepared to keep sending a new crew to the cockpit until things were in order.
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ray.... Thanks for that post as I have always wondered if anyone else has seen those effects. They can happen virtually anywhere on the air frame or in the screen room, but a bad ground would certainly excite that local area.
Lazer, I was a radio maintenance airdog for the C5 and C141 many years ago.
On the C5, I can remember seeing bad grounding at the antenna connector for that big, bad Avco HF R/T hung on a piss-poor rack in the tail.
You could see it - a coronal arc around the base of the PL-259 style connector. It would glow in the dark when your buddy hit the TX line in the avionics bay. You could draw it out farther and create an arc by placing the blade of a screwdriver against the R/T mount and edging it up to the faulted connector - but if you slipped a bit and lost the ground connection to the mount, you'd end up with burn on your hand.
Cheers!
Ray
On the C5, I can remember seeing bad grounding at the antenna connector for that big, bad Avco HF R/T hung on a piss-poor rack in the tail.
You could see it - a coronal arc around the base of the PL-259 style connector. It would glow in the dark when your buddy hit the TX line in the avionics bay. You could draw it out farther and create an arc by placing the blade of a screwdriver against the R/T mount and edging it up to the faulted connector - but if you slipped a bit and lost the ground connection to the mount, you'd end up with burn on your hand.
Cheers!
Ray
