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Adam Air B737-400 fatal crash January 2007

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Adam Air B737-400 fatal crash January 2007

Old 18th Jan 2007, 05:15
  #181 (permalink)  
 
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EY,

Before getting hot under the collar, READ THE THREAD!!

theamsrad said this incident showed how good Indonesian pilots are. I didn't say they're not, I said THIS INCIDENT was not a good example!!

I take it holding your own ethnic group up as being superior is national pride, whilst suggesting they make mistakes like every one else is racist??
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Old 18th Jan 2007, 05:59
  #182 (permalink)  
 
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Not intending to throw more fuel on the flames, but there is no "Indonesian" ethnicity. "Greater Indonesia" was the result of the Javanese invading surrounding islands when the colonial occupiers departed.
Even talking about "ethnic traits" is misguided. Its the cultural rather than ethnic traits that is more likely to distinguish between people in certain situations. Some would argue that some Asian cultures lead people to act in specific ways when "saving face" is a factor (and I'm sure we all know the stories and sitauations where this may have been a factor) ... but I'd venture that this is far more present in more northern Asian cultures than that of the Javanese.

However ... back to the real story here!
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Old 18th Jan 2007, 09:49
  #183 (permalink)  
 
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Wizofoz, if your post doesn't contain any malice, I apologize but I do hope you will make it clear next time.It's perplexing that some posters here associate superior pilot skills with a certain gender/race or genetic makeup.

What some posters don't realise is that the professional pilots throughout the world are exposed with enough publication about CRM & power gradient in the cockpit, but sometimes work culture & environment thrashes that idea the moment they stepped in to work.More so when that's the only means for them to eke a life & put food on the table till a better job comes along (sometimes...never!).

Hopefully, we can all learn something objectively from this disaster.The good news is that Adam Air & the aviation industry in Indonesia in paticular will have a lot to answer for.

Btw, I am not Indonesian, just someone close to that neck of the woods & definitely emphatise witht their predicament.
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Old 18th Jan 2007, 11:05
  #184 (permalink)  
 
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Weizen,
From http://archive.gulfnews.com/articles.../10096624.html
The poor fisherman said he had never expected the piece of white material, he found snarled in a fishing net 300m from the shore and which he initially thought was plywood, would put him in the media spotlight.
This one is consistent with the TV interviews on the man.
---

Theamrad,
Just thought U might be interested... Final verdict on Capt. Sutan vs Adam Air is delayed until 23Jan... and... it is reported that Adam has instead settled...

1. Adam to write reference letter stating Capt. Sutan is a good pilot
2. Revoke the letter Adam sent to DGAC stating Sutan is not suitable for flying
3. Reach an agreement on how much Adam should pay Sutan in loss of income
4. Reach an agreement on how much Adam should pay Sutan in damages
5. Pay damages caused by loss of income in terms of Capt. Sutan's car lease!

Verdict not finalized today because the amounts on #3-5 have not been agreed and still needs to be negotiated.

PK-KAR
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Old 18th Jan 2007, 16:28
  #185 (permalink)  
 
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Perhaps this is throwing petrol on the fire, but this is a remarkably similar accident within a few days of the present thread.

Makes it pretty hard to disclaim cultural issues.
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Old 18th Jan 2007, 18:13
  #186 (permalink)  
 
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Angel

In 2006 there were more fatal aircraft accidents in North America than any other continent.

What does that tell us?
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Old 18th Jan 2007, 18:33
  #187 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Techman
In 2006 there were more fatal aircraft accidents in North America than any other continent.

What does that tell us?
Absolutely nothing.
Fatalities per flt hour might indicate something.
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Old 19th Jan 2007, 20:06
  #188 (permalink)  
 
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Thanks for letting me know, PK-KAR. Definitely sounds like a good outcome so far - and better than I would have anticipated. I wonder how much the potential bad publicity from loosing the case played in deciding to settle the case. Ok - stopped wondering! lol.

To be honest, I definitely feel cinical about the chances that this particular accident will make any difference from a government/"top-down" enforcement perspective. I think in the aftermath, it will be business as usual - unfortunately.
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Old 20th Jan 2007, 02:35
  #189 (permalink)  
 
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Yes... business as usual, with at least the normal loads of lemmings/self-loading suicidal pax/those who'd rather risk their lives for a $5 savings in cheaper fares by flying Adam Air and Madam Sandra Ang is still laughing all the way to the bank (or hell?) unfortunately.

*shakes head*

PK-KAR
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Old 20th Jan 2007, 04:15
  #190 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by StudentInDebt
You've never been to Indonesia have you Wombat. Such confusion, and grandstanding is quite common.
Lots of rumours in S.E Asia about Adam Air and this accident in particular. They include aircraft and equipment serviceability, crew training and compentency, flight in hazardous forecast weather conditions.

In an effort to further confuse the possible reasons for the loss of the aircraft and crew/passengers Adam Air announced 2 days ago they are going to replace all their Boeing fleet with A320's.
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Old 20th Jan 2007, 04:35
  #191 (permalink)  
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Originally Posted by B772
Lots of rumours in S.E Asia about Adam Air and this accident in particular. They include aircraft and equipment serviceability, crew training and compentency, flight in hazardous forecast weather conditions.
In an effort to further confuse the possible reasons for the loss of the aircraft and crew/passengers Adam Air announced 2 days ago they are going to replace all their Boeing fleet with A320's.
Exactly what EgyptAir did after their flt990 loss in 1999.


Guess what their fleet is mostly composed of now.....?
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Old 20th Jan 2007, 07:50
  #192 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by B772
In an effort to further confuse the possible reasons for the loss of the aircraft and crew/passengers Adam Air announced 2 days ago they are going to replace all their Boeing fleet with A320's.
All of Adam Air's 737s are high cycle machines with the majority being classics over 15 years old. Considering the reported lack of proper maintenance at Adam Air, they certainly would do very well to order some newer aircraft.


Originally Posted by jet_noseover
Exactly what EgyptAir did after their flt990 loss in 1999.
Guess what their fleet is mostly composed of now.....?
EgyptAir's current jet passenger fleet consists of 26 Airbus and 21 Boeing aircraft. Of the 16 A320 series aircraft they own, 11 of them were delivered before FLT990 and 3 A340s were also ordered prior to the apparent suicide by the FO.

The jet orders Egypt Air made after 1999 were split between Boeing and Airbus. They have recently ordered 12 more 738s. (2005/2006)



Commercial aviation safety worldwide could benefit greatly if the third world operators (and LCCs) were to replace their aging high-cycle fleets with new aircraft and include a top tier maintenance deal when they buy.

All they need is money.
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Old 20th Jan 2007, 08:52
  #193 (permalink)  
 
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Adam Air does, indeed, have a lot to answer for........but why on earth would any airline intentionally opt for Airbus? Initial economies, and kick-backs to management from EADS must be wieghed against risk in operating "disposable aircraft". The bottom line still doesn't make sense when weighed against safety and lives.

Many LowCost Oper8rs, have bought the Airbus "line". Quick profit for the management and owners. Delays, inconvenience and increased risk for the PAX.

Air Asia (Malaysia) has the largest feet of NEW A320's going..... on my LAST (and I DO mean LAST) Air Asia flight ex KL, I caught a glimpse of the flt deck on boarding one of theiir NEW A320s and was amazed by the sea of orange DMI stickers on the panels. I thought they had changed the Airbus cockpit colour scheme...

My family does NOT fly Air Asia or Adam Air any more. Neither do I ! Flights with MAS only accepted if it's on a Boeing.
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Old 20th Jan 2007, 12:28
  #194 (permalink)  
 
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Adamned Air want those 320s?

In an effort to further confuse the possible reasons for the loss of the aircraft and crew/passengers Adam Air announced 2 days ago they are going to replace all their Boeing fleet with A320's.
I wouldn't want to know what would happen if they change from 733/4/5s to A32Xs without a change in the rumoured/reported maintenance standards/practices... Perhaps Adam Air would be "direct law specialists"...

In an effort to further confuse the possible reasons for the loss of the aircraft and crew/passengers Adam Air announced 2 days ago they are going to replace all their Boeing fleet with A320's.
As far as research/inquiries has allowed, Adam did order the A320s, but "all subject to finance", and that, was the problem. I guess lack of financial transparency was part of the problem. Then, about 3 months or so ago, Adam Air declared that it was disappointed in Airbus in that "they lack ability to deliver the A320s within the timeframe wanted." *YEA RIGHT*

So, as we write this, and since Christmas, I've heard that there have been some Adam Air engineers over in Turkey, now, would this be getting more 734s? or perhaps they're looking at Onur Air A320s? *sarcastic grin & excuse the pun*

As for Adam operating the 320, I'd have to follow what Podunk indicated... ie; won't be a pretty picture.

Many LowCost Oper8rs, have bought the Airbus "line". Quick profit for the management and owners. Delays, inconvenience and increased risk for the PAX.
Well, it's not that bad, though it is more like quick profit from initial low maintenance, then they IPO and cash their stakes in, then the maintenance bills start climbing...

Frankly, I don't care what the plane is made by, I care more about the operator... (ie: give me an A320-100 by say, BA or AF, over a 777-300ER by say, Adam Air, ANYDAY!)

PK-KAR
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Old 21st Jan 2007, 16:06
  #195 (permalink)  
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box found?

JAKARTA, Jan. 21 (Xinhua) -- The search and rescue (SAR) team has received an orange box, suspected as a black box of Indonesia's ill-fated Adam Air plane, which has been disappeared with 102 people aboard since Jan. 1 when it was on its way from Surabaya to Manado.

The box was found by Ridwan, 41, a fisherman in Somba Utara waters, Majene regency, South Sulawesi province, Antara news agency reported Sunday.

Pare Pare Police chief Sr. Comr. Gatot Hariyanto said that the box was handed over to the joint SAR team tasked to track the missing plane for further investigation by the Transportation Safety National Committee.

The box measuring 21 centimeters long, 6 centimeters width, and 4.5 centimeters high, is being kept in the SAR Command Post in Hasanuddin airport, South Sulawesi provincial capital of Makassar.

Air Force chief of staff Marshall Herman Prayitno said that the box found in Majene is like a plane black box, but he could not confirm that it came from Adam Air plane until the investigation completes.

SAR team has collected dozens of goods, which are suspected coming from Adam Air plane, but the team has not found the main body of the ill-fated aircraft as well as bodies of its passengers.


http://news.xinhuanet.com/english/20...nt_5633282.htm
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Old 21st Jan 2007, 16:15
  #196 (permalink)  
 
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I think that box was determined to be an "emergency ration box" with the writings clearly stating it... was dismissed this late afternoon as such.

PK-KAR
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Old 21st Jan 2007, 22:41
  #197 (permalink)  
 
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NEW A320s and was amazed by the sea of orange DMI stickers on the panels. I thought they had changed the Airbus cockpit colour scheme...
That is a good sign they are sticking to the rules that all unserviceable items must be placarded.
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Old 22nd Jan 2007, 00:09
  #198 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Podunk
Adam Air does, indeed, have a lot to answer for........but why on earth would any airline intentionally opt for Airbus? Initial economies, and kick-backs to management from EADS must be wieghed against risk in operating "disposable aircraft". The bottom line still doesn't make sense when weighed against safety and lives.
Many LowCost Oper8rs, have bought the Airbus "line". Quick profit for the management and owners. Delays, inconvenience and increased risk for the PAX.
Air Asia (Malaysia) has the largest feet of NEW A320's going..... on my LAST (and I DO mean LAST) Air Asia flight ex KL, I caught a glimpse of the flt deck on boarding one of theiir NEW A320s and was amazed by the sea of orange DMI stickers on the panels. I thought they had changed the Airbus cockpit colour scheme...
My family does NOT fly Air Asia or Adam Air any more. Neither do I ! Flights with MAS only accepted if it's on a Boeing.
Sometimes I hope that people who claim to be pilots on here actually aren't.
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Old 22nd Jan 2007, 13:38
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Originally Posted by Podunk
Adam Air does, indeed, have a lot to answer for........but why on earth would any airline intentionally opt for Airbus? Initial economies, and kick-backs to management from EADS must be wieghed against risk in operating "disposable aircraft". The bottom line still doesn't make sense when weighed against safety and lives.
Many LowCost Oper8rs, have bought the Airbus "line". Quick profit for the management and owners. Delays, inconvenience and increased risk for the PAX.
Air Asia (Malaysia) has the largest feet of NEW A320's going..... on my LAST (and I DO mean LAST) Air Asia flight ex KL, I caught a glimpse of the flt deck on boarding one of theiir NEW A320s and was amazed by the sea of orange DMI stickers on the panels. I thought they had changed the Airbus cockpit colour scheme...
My family does NOT fly Air Asia or Adam Air any more. Neither do I ! Flights with MAS only accepted if it's on a Boeing.
Nice USA bit of gripe there because Boeing is threatened by superior technology. I Guess Jap and Euro cars will fall in to the same catagory in America and be 'dissed' for their inferior pedigree!
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Old 22nd Jan 2007, 15:15
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Originally Posted by Podunk
Adam Air does, indeed, have a lot to answer for........but why on earth would any airline intentionally opt for Airbus?
Many LowCost Oper8rs, have bought the Airbus "line". Quick profit for the management and owners. Initial economies, and kick-backs to management from EADS must be wieghed against risk in operating "disposable aircraft". The bottom line still doesn't make sense when weighed against safety and lives. Delays, inconvenience and increased risk for the PAX.
I don't want to take the bait of starting a Boeing vs Airbus discussion, but what does you post have to do with the Adam Air story? If Adam Air managment puts pressure on it's pilots to fly unsafe aircraft, then it doesn't matter if they receive their kick-backs from Seattle or Toulouse now does it?
My family does NOT fly Air Asia or Adam Air any more. Neither do I ! Flights with MAS only accepted if it's on a Boeing.
Thanks for this 'insider knowledge' that Boeing aircraft are immune to crashes! I like that in Americans: many of you always find a way to simplify even the most complicated problem! OK I'm off now, running to my stockbroker to buy some Boeing shares...
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