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Old 16th Dec 2017, 12:16
  #223 (permalink)  
Xiamen
 
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Originally Posted by fliion
I’ll add to what Trader said

It is NOT the AUGs ‘duty’ to monitor any part of the approach in a way that will result in punitive measures in the event of a screw up.

Because as far as the GCAA are concerned - those augmenters are NOT on duty per the ACARS duty report and subsequent calculations for max duty limits per year.

This is a total croc of shyte. The luxury of having a colleague there to assist is just that and the Co punishing guys who are wiped out at that stage is a disgrace.

Yes the OMA lists responsibilities but to hold those guys to same standard is so beautifully characteristic of the flawed approach to Man mgt here - that it, well, speaks for itself.

No EPT mount is provided for CM3/4 and thus may not be used in the flight deck (OMA 8.1.13 a. 4.)
No pilot with near vision problems is required by EK Medical Services to view screens from 2+/- meters away at night.

At no point have EK pilots been been trained to PM from CM3 (you can’t even see from CM4). Trainers on the other hand are.

Stop pandering to the ever widening net of those to blame that has been perfected here by mgt.

It’s the Operating Crews responsibility - period.

Otherwise can we please have no notice Line checks conducted from CM4 observing CM3 observing CM1+2 - after we have had the eye monitoring feedback from sim in the CM3 position- all the while making it known to the GCAA - THAT THESE PILOTS ARE TECHNICALLY NOT ON DUTY!

One other point - if any of you guys augmenting find yourself in a JFK situation- IMMEDIATELY write a fatigue report.
I have no doubt what you say is correct.
I have been #3 or #4 myself, many times. I could choose to sleep, read a book, or act as an extra set of eyes in the cockpit. In that position my mental capacity was very high. Not occupied with radio, check lists, procedures or flying.
The capacity to just look out the window and say a word or two if I had to look up to see the runway. Never happened to me, though.

I am comparing these two incidents with the Asiana SFO accident. Those pilots were praised as heroes when they got home. The rest of us know what they did. Or failed to do. They were along for the ride and crashed because they did not understand the aircraft and failed to take control when things went bad.
Is it easy to accept this because it was a Korean airline with asian pilots?

Are we more inclined to blame everything else when something very similar happens with an EK aircraft? Because of what? Caucasian pilots, maybe? The standard is supposed to be higher? Why?
We all know Emirates have lowered the requirements got get a job. Several times. By doing so, the standard of EK pilots have been lowered. Less hours. Less experience.
And, in any airline there are average pilots, very good pilots, and some who are below average. Get the wrong combination in the cockpit and things can get interesting.

I am not saying the EK pilots are to blame, but you can’t say they are not. They put the aircraft in that position. Nobody else.

Where I am now, an incident like this would be investigated. The pilots would normally get som extra training. Everybody else would get the benefits of the investigation and the knowhow of how to avoid something like this in the future.

We know the Emirates way, and it is dead wrong. You can’t scare your pilots to be safe. You can’t beat them to make them safe. You can’t fire them to make them safe.
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