Very interesting. I completely concur with Stan. I also worked with the Orange set in the fairly early days. Coming from a relatively (!) 'legacy' background I was looking forward to my new short haul lifestyle. Whereas in my previous existence the relationship between management and pilots was relatively benign I was astonished at the hostility to the pilot group within easy. Essentially the prevailing view was that we were a bunch of overpaid prima donnas and our laughable obsessions with such trivia as fatigue, multi sector days and crew food were merely self absorbed obstacles to airline accountant nirvana. It would appear that the same old tedious issues continue to surface. I agree with the view that, although I have never worked for them, the Ryanair 'just do your job' philosophy worked well in comparison to the false pretence that easy gave to the world of actually caring for the pilot lifestyle concerns. In reality they did not give a rat's posterior and I am sure, still don't. I am not sure that the fabled staff canteen actually banned pilots, but on the one occasion that I ventured there in uniform I was viewed with distaste. The comparison with New Labour is interesting and has been made before: a lot of spin and deceit behind the scenes.