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Old 18th Aug 2015, 07:00
  #232 (permalink)  
youthinkso
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
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hi hobnobanyone.

I will try to answer as many as I can.

£7000 deduction - if you don't need the B737/B756 type rating it is for one year only, if you do need the rating as you would hobnob it is for 3 years.

Salary, if joining as an SO (less than 1500 hours total and less than 500 hours jet time) then salary is £46,411, this is then reduced to 81.3% for the PPY50 contract = £37,732 per annum, then apply deduction above for type rating for 1 or 3 years as required, giving £30,732.

This link is pretty good to see what that is in your hand Income Tax Calculator £1957.27 a month (with tax code 1060L) playing around with the calculator to add another £1000 per months in the summer increases the take home to £2680ish per month.

One thing you would need to seek clarity on is how the company upgrade from SO to FO pay scales, if it happens like a light switch or if they apply other criteria like does it have to be after you have done your annual sim check with 500 hours on type, the pay agreements say;

"first officer rate paid once 1500 hours and 500jet hours achieved (on a similar aircraft)"

Which would suggest its as soon as you hit the mark, but the agreements for new pilots also say;
"New pilots will have the opportunity to transfer to full-time employment on completion of 5 years service or availability of winter work, if sooner"

That would suggest that those pilots who did winter work e.g. Canada would have been made full time, but the company's unique interpretation of that clause was that it didn't count because they guys went and worked for sunwing (of which TUI owns 49%) in Canada via Thomson, so it didn't count and they remain PPY50, not full time, so by that argument they could send you to any group airline over winter and it wouldn't qualify to become full time !! So you see my point, it is worth getting in writing exactly what triggers the FO pay scale rather than find out of the company apply some novel interpretation.

If it is purely a jet hours trigger then with the max legal of 100 hours in 28 days (max we may be rostered at present under scheduling agreement is 93 hours in any rolling 28 days) you might just manage to get the 5-600 hours in the summer depending on when they get you online, much of the training seems to overrun into summer season, once online though I'm sure many would be willing to swap a Palma for Sharm el sheik to help you build your hours if there is legally room on your roster


It would be frustrating if you just missed the 500 mark before the winter or you could just miss it and then have to go through the winter on your SO pay, though that said when the roster is not up against the legal limits in winter in your 2 weeks on and you're getting 1-3 flight a fortnight I'm sure the full time guys would happily let you have their flights - I know FO's who did this many moons ago to hit the 1500 hours mark to jump to the FO payscales.


The Jump would be from £30,732 to FO pay (£55,435 *.813 minus £7000) = £38069, an extra £7336.66 Gross a year, taking the wage from £1957 to £2415 a month in the winter if you managed to get the FO scale (500 jet hours) before the quieter winter (trigger to be confirmed).

I am wondering though, given that the airline are specifically asking for 1500 hours total time, of which 500 has to be jet/prop/military why they are asking for those requirements when the requirements for an FO upgrade are 1500 hours of which 500 is on a jet.
There is a slight variation for each job advert:

non rated : A minimum of 1500 hours of which 500 must be on a twin turbo propeller aircraft, a military aircraft or a multiengine jet

rated:Have a minimum of 300 hours on B737 (300 – 900)• Have a minimum of 100 hours B737 300-900 in 12 months prior to application

I don't know the reason they have dropped to 300 from 500, but perhaps it is a good thing, I know a number of pilots who don't have 500 hours but maybe have 300 from having done a seasons flying on jets (pesky pay to fly schemes or someone who has done a fixed term contract one summer and not made the magic 500 number) so maybe it is opening the doors to them, if it said 500 hours jet then if you are in that situation you have many more options on the market as most add stipulate 500 hours jet, they are also then undercutting jet2 entry requirements

for example Jet 2 Career Search who by all accounts are struggling to find suitable pilots and have now started doing recruitment out in the middle east to try and lure pilots back.

You mentioned being the wrong side of 30 and the long term game, it is worth bearing in mind that at present time to command with Thomson (talking really long game now) is somewhere in the region of 15 years, so you would be on the FO pay point after 5 years in FO rank and command ready at the salary figure of £69,167, no further increments other than annual pay negotiations until you get your command, circa another 10 years minimum. That of course assumes we stay static, don't expand, there is something going on at the moment called "one aviation" which is all about trying to create one airline amongst all the TUI airlines - BLX in Scandinavia, TOM in UK, arkefly in the Netherlands, Jetair in Belgium - so this could vary time scales.


Then of course there is the pension too, this is advertised as 10% company contribution for you guys, this used to be 15%, the pilots have not agreed to drop this to 10% the company are trying it on and did last year too threatening 7% for new joiners. The workforce went apoplectic and still are seething about this, we don't know what the union is doing about this, but if one portion of employees is on less than the others it is only a matter of time before they try and reduce the other pilots (this is the same strategy they used to reduce final salary pension, initially closed it to new joiners, then continued watering it down).

I don't know what the agreements say if you require a type rating and then leave within the 3 years, I don't think anyone has done it yet as the only non type rated people the company have recruited is the internal cadets in the last year or so.

As you say there are not many routes on to a jet from other aircraft at the moment so it is a bit of a short and curlies situation.

Last edited by youthinkso; 18th Aug 2015 at 07:32.
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