Originally Posted by
NeilUK
Hi Guys,
First post for me!
Welcome to PPrune.
I am coming to the end of my PPL course, having completed my QXC and hoping to sit the test weather permitting and a few other variables in my favor.
About June then!
Slightly presumptuously I have been considering what to do once I have completed the license - and of course part of the continuation of flying and to a degree hours/experience building as someone who has just passed.
I am wondering if there are any positives and negatives in terms of looking at a Share vs Hiring one from the airfield. I of course understand the principle that if you buy a share it is availability based - but I have my own company, so to a degree flying weekdays has it's advantages etc...
You can do the maths on any syndicate versus your local hiring, but fairly regularly the breakeven seems to work out around 30 hours per year. That's pure finances of-course.
Pros: You can get to really know the aeroplane, you can take it away for several days at a time, you have a real say in how the aeroplane is looked after, you save money.
Cons: If the aeroplane's sick you can't fly it, and are likely to have to contribute in time or money to solving the problems, expect to have to put other effort into things like cleaning, managing finances, etc. Basically you pay for your cheap flying with effort and risk.
Take for example a theoretical situation of a £2,000 'buy in', £80/month cost and £75/hr flight on a PA28 - I am wondering the following in general terms;
1) Does the £75/hr generally include items such as fuel, oil and other consumables - or are these at extra cost?
The majority of syndicates are priced "wet", so that includes consumables. Most syndicates, if you buy fuel away from home base just knock what you spent off the bill, so there's no real net gain or loss. That said, I've been in two syndicate priced dry - just make sure you understand the local rules, and you're happy about them.
2) In general terms after you've paid your £80/month (obviously airfield costs considered) is there generally a surplus afterwards in case the engine blows up or the wing falls of? Or would £80 x say 5-10 shares be roughly the cost of parking a PA28 for a month at an airfield (in general terms etc)?
Big question! Look at the finances of any syndicate to see what they're doing. Some run on a healthy surplus, some run to the wire and accept the need for occasional cash-calls. Either can be fine, so long as everybody's accepting of the state of play.
3) Does £80/month x however many shares (say 5-10) generally cover all expenses including insurance, annuals etc - or is that at additional cost to the £80/month?
Every syndicate I've ever been in, that is set to cover all of the AIRCRAFT fixed costs, but it's likely that you'll have to pay your own club membership.
4) Is the £2,000 essentially a purchase, if you sell your share do you get it 'back'? Also, if you sell your share 3 years later would it technically be lower due to the value of the plane?
A £2k share implies a lower value aeroplane - aeroplanes like that can go either up or down in value, depending upon how things are going, the aeroplane is being looked after, the cash reserves (which are effectively part of the aeroplane in this context) go up or down. When you do sell your share, the free market applies. If all you can get is £1, that's that. If it's become a really popular syndicate and you can get £3k, well done.
5) Do groups/shareholders 'like' newly qualified PPL holders, or will it tend to put up insurances, be a risk groups prefer not to take and so forth?
This varies a lot. I'm in three syndicates at the moment. One is three experienced pilots sharing an aeroplane we know well, and we'd not be at-all happy with any member selling their share to an inexperienced pilot. Another is a large syndicate on a training-suitable aeroplane, and we have a couple of instructors on the syndicate - so we've had people buy a share to finish their PPL off on it, then carry on. The other is somewhere in between.
Sorry to ask such probably seeming obvious questions - or if it has been asked elsewhere, I'm just trying to get my head around the 'next step'!
Cheers
Neil
Perfectly reasonable questions. and you're sensible to be asking them. The other point I'd make about joining a syndicate (and I've been in 8 so far - most of which worked really well most of the time.) is that the single most important factor is neither the aeroplane nor the financial situation - it's the people you're in the syndicate with. If they're the right people to share an aeroplane with, who pull their weight and support each other - most other problems can be resolved smoothly. If they're not, then eventually it'll all go wrong.
G