Pupo, here's the question, current SXS recruitment is either via Stella as ventilated above or if you are ex-military Turkish you don't pay all the costs up front but have a lower wage as the costs are cut from the salary… is this still PTF? If it's about cash flow and you are already in debt as you were " sold the dream" by some initial training outfit preaching the " great pilot shortage myth" you will probably appreciate the extra salary, on the other hand if you are a 50 year old ex major with little debt the reduced salary won't matter too much. It's not a perfect world for sure but at least some guys are getting a break. The argument that this practice stops the " talented" getting in the airlines is nonsense, we see many many applications from integrated school guys that have been waiting two or three years, have increased their debt to "keep current" and are now on the back foot. Yes, in an ideal world the airlines should carry the cost, alas they have learnt they don't have to and are unlikely to change. Why is no one claiming the Tui Fly type rating and flying at 110000 e is " pay to fly" ? maybe the Belgium and Dutch think differently, or just take a different view towards getting a job..of course, if you have the luxury of no overheads, no kids to support and no mortgage and are living off the parents then I guess it's easy to pontificate. I'm waiting for the curd to hit the fan when NAS get the A320 type rating scheme going!