Tianjin Airlines

[lifeafteraviation]

Tianjin Airlines now hiring Embraer E145 captains again

Tianjin Airlines is hiring Embraer E145 captains again. As before, they are promising a transition to the Embraer E190 and eventually the Airbus A320.

The posts by pilotss2001 have been generally accurate if a bit negative. Some people like it in China, others don’t. I highly recommend reading all his posts.

I’m going to attempt to lay down the facts here without as much commentary. These are the things your recruiter probably won’t tell you about. Your recruiter gets a commission on successful placement so be sure to understand that. Your recruiter can be a powerful ally as well and a great resource so be sure to research the many different recruiters. It’s important you understand these facts before you make decisions about flying in China.

No one has ever transitioned to the Airbus A320 at Tianjin Airlines nor are there any scheduled plans to do so. They still talk about it though. If you get hired today to fly the Embraer E145 it would likely be 4-5 years before such an opportunity presented itself assuming you successfully transition to the E190 first and completed the 3 year contract. Everything will likely change before then.

Historically the transition to the Embraer E190 occurs after about one year but varies depending on when you start. Tianjin Airlines frequently cancels classes at the last minute and change dates and contract terms for Embraer E190 transition training. They have been saying “immediate upgrade” without ever having to actually fly the E145 for a long time but it’s never happened.

The current contract for the Embraer E145 at Tianjin Airlines is not as good as it was last year. No one has ever been hired under this new contract (at the time of this post). The new contract is for about the same money as the old contract but with fewer vacation days, no sick days, heavier restrictions on when you can take vacation days, and greatly reduced salaries during transition training (although this last part may get removed due to its intense unpopularity). Also the new contract requires you to pay for any additional training you may incur. It is very common for pilots to fail line checks and sim checks in China for what seem like insignificant reasons. Often pilots are sent for additional training for common occurrences such as QAR warnings caused by wind shear or other uncontrollable factors. Financial penalties are sometimes assessed for these things depending on the pilot’s attitude and history but I'm not sure if they will require you to pay for the additional sim time you will get since these contracts are still pretty new.

There are a few weird caveats in the new contract such as losing vacation days when you are sick (you will get sick occasionally when you live and fly in China). Also there's a clause stating that when there are any inconsistencies between the English and Chinese version of the contract the Chinese version will prevail (Good luck figuring that out).

[edit - added]Another thing the recruiters avoid telling you is that when you start training you don't get any vacation and you only get 60% of your agreed contracted salary with Tianjin Airlines for the first 45 days. After 45 days you get 80% salary until you complete your final line check and make your first flight as a solo captain (the 45 day period can be reduced if your paperwork goes through a bit faster but you have no control over this and it rarely happens). This entire period of initial training can take anywhere from 3-6 months. Your vacation schedule begins on that same date you go to 100% salary with no credit for the time spent in training.

You get paid on the 15th of the month following the work completed so you won't see your first paycheck for a while. Tianjin Airlines only pays the first 30 days of living expenses at a hotel (good hotel but isolated). Normally in China you must pay rent for your apartment several months in advance plus a security deposit. Rent is similar to the cost in the U.S. depending on the location, size, and city. You will need some cash to get you started in China...probably at least five thousand dollars cash on hand or you will go broke, hungry and homeless before you get your first check. U.S. ATM cards usually work in China and you can get Chinese money out of an ATM on a foreign account but you will pay fees.

Since half your salary is paid in Chinese currency you will probably need to find creative ways to convert it to U.S. currency and take it home. It's not always easy but most pilots have figured out creative ways to do it.

Many pilots have chosen to keep their old contracts (especially those flying the E145 or the 4/4 E190 schedule who had little financial reason to change it) but Tianjin Airlines is still attempting to impose new restrictions on old contracts causing some friction among the pilots. An example of this is the new policy requiring pilots on the 4 weeks on and 4 weeks off (one month on and one month off) vacation cycle to rotate each year to avoid having the same months off every year. Since this wasn’t entered into the old contract which many pilots still use it’s unclear if the company can force pilots to accept this change if they don’t want to. Generally the Chinese don’t see contracts as binding in the way we do in the U.S. But they will still expect you to honor your terms.

Also, if you come here as an E145 pilot, when you transition to the Embraer E190 you are subject to signing whatever contract is in effect at the time you finish transition training. The contracts have historically been updated every year or so. This means the E190 contract you are expected to sign will likely be different than the one in effect when you signed the initial Embraer E145 contract. You are required to sign a letter of intent to sign the contract before you begin training but the actual contract is signed after training many months later. It may change during that time. They usually have different requirements and incentives in the contract for transition training than for new hire Embraer E190 pilots. Generally transition pilots have fewer options.

All this means that if you come to Tianjin Airlines as an Embraer E145 captain and plan to transition to the E190 you can expect you will be under contract a total of 4-5 years from when you start your E145 contract. Don't think you will go and fly the E190 right away and be finished in just three years.

You are expected to pay $20,000 USD for your transition training after you are already hired by withholding $2000 from your salary over a ten month period starting when you begin training. The company will reimburse this fee to you gradually over the three year contract but will penalize you if you quit your contract early. Don’t expect to see the first reimbursement until about a year and a half after you begin transition training.

Currently the contract states your salary will be reduced to $5,000 per month during the first part of transition training (about 2 months or so). No one has been subjected to this yet because no one has yet gone through transition training that was initially hired under these new contract terms. As stated in the other posts Tianjin Airlines tried to impose this policy on the old contracts but it was changed. Each time a transition class has occurred (I think it’s two or three times total??) the terms of the training have been different.

You are also expected to forgo any vacation (trips home to see your family) until you have fully completed training and are a "solo captain" flying with a Chinese first officer. This applies to initial and transition training and your vacation will not accrue during this time. Transition training can take 4-6 months. If you transition quickly to the E190 don't expect to get to go home much in that first year. You are not allowed to select the four weeks on and four weeks off schedule until after a year or so.

Tianjin Airlines latest ads for Embraer E145 pilots state bases in Tianjin and Hohhot. Tianjin is where the majority of foreign pilots are based. There are currently no foreign pilots based in Hohhot and being located in Inner Mongolia it can get very cold there but there’s less pollution. Research the cities. I don’t think there are many foreigners living in Hohhot at all compared to Tianjin and it’s pretty remote. You don’t necessarily get to choose your base despite the recruiters saying that you do.

If you are “hired” by Tianjin Airlines your chances of completing the screening are pretty small historically. Maybe 20-40 percent of “hired” pilots completes the screening and is able to report for training and get paid. I believe there was one instance during the past year where some seven or eight guys from one U.S. carrier all failed to pass screening during the simulator test. These are people who are currently flying the type as a line captain. After you go on payroll and start initial training you have maybe a 10-20% chance of washing out. Several pilots have spent four months on initial training only to be released by the company after failing a line check. You normally have to do two days of line checks with four legs each and two different check airman on two separate occasions to pass. That’s a total of 16 line checks segments. The simulator checks are separate; normally just the one for the CAAC and then every six months just like the U.S.

The main thing that pilots have difficulty with in the sim evaluations is the multiple failures and max crosswind landings. If you plan on taking the sim check screening take a chance to practice single engine 30 knot crosswind landings in the sim back home. If you can’t land on the centerline, maintain the centerline, land on the touchdown zone and land on speed without exceeding 1.6Gs you probably won’t pass. A perfect Chinese landing is smack on the centerline at the 1000 foot marker at exactly Vref and not too hard and not too soft. Don’t try to impress a Chinese check airman by “greasing it on” or you will fail. You don’t need to be perfect but you need to be consistently close and clearly in control. The Chinese are very mechanical in their flying technique. Once you get used to it it’s not that hard to fly this way.

The good news is I don’t think anyone has ever failed transition training and even if you do Tianjin Airlines says you can just go back to your old plane and finish your original contract. I believe there are only a handful of guys ever to have actually taken transition training at Tianjin Airlines and there are four going through simulator right now. Once you get past that first hurdle of coming to China and learn how to “fly Chinese” it’s much easier to transition to a new type than it is to complete initial in a type you are already flying. It’s ironic that the Chinese airlines spend so much effort to recruit new pilots from overseas rather than focus on keeping the pilots they already have.

Another major consideration you must make is that if you come to Tianjin Airlines or any other airline in China hoping to jump to another airline later keep in mind that you are legally beholden to the company that sponsors you. They own your resident permit, your work permit, and your CAAC ATPL certificate. It’s unlikely an airline will allow you to go to another airline unless your contract has expired and even then some airlines have tricky clauses built in to automatically renew your contract (remember the part about the Chinese words prevail when there’s a discrepancy in the contract?). While Tianjin Airlines is the only Chinese airline currently recruiting Embraer E145 and E190 pilots there may be better opportunities out there. Some airlines recruit experienced pilots directly into other types but it’s very rare at this stage.

Don’t expect to stiff the Chinese and skip town in the middle of the night. Several pilots have done that and have burned their bridges. They will never get a solid referral and will never get to go back to China, even as a crewmember on another carrier. Try explaining to your new company why you can’t go on that trip to China.

I would like to go on and discuss some of the positives of living and flying in China simply to provide a counter point to the excellent posts made by pilotss2001 but I wanted to keep this post to just the hard facts. As I said before, some people like it here and some don’t. The best way to avoid coming here and not liking it or coming here and failing is to understand the facts first and decide if you still want to come.

Pilotss2001 made some excellent points about the state of the airline industry in the United States and the potential opportunities opening up. It’s happening very suddenly but it is happening. Many of the U.S. pilots at Tianjin Airlines are looking to go back and ride this next boom while some are planning on making a long term commitment to China.