They did in fact get seniority numbers when they signed the contract with CX that also entitled them to expat terms. CX a while later said sorry, no longer the deal, local terms and no seniority until you join as a Cadet SO. They had already been instructing in ADL for some time. Yes it is an odd situation but there was a route to join CX this way, which they did. CX then changed the terms after the fact.
I got my seniority number in ADL, whilst flying FTA aircraft, one month before stepping foot in HKG.
Yes, all DESO get our seniority while we are in ADL because we are hired as DESO and we have officially sign our contract with CX before heading down to ADL. We are sent down to ADL for our conversion course, which is allowed under our contract. (Contractually, CX can send anyone anywhere for training purposes, if they are under going training for CX operational needs, look under company policy for training and contact details on training.)
However the difference between instructors cadets and DESO are the fact that they are cadets. If you talk to any cadets (I have talk to a few of them), they do not get their seniority until they return to Hong Kong. So by giving seniority to instructor cadets while they are still in ADL, they are by-passing other CX pilot who are genuinely operating a CX aircraft under the HK AOC. Also, these instructors cadet are not on CX payroll, so if they are given seniority while they are instructing in ADL, they are breaching the contract of every cadets and DESO and DEFO who joined CX while these instructors are still instructing in ADL. So is this fair to those cadets entry pilot, DESO or DEFO? I don't think so.
To make it clear for everyone, if you read our contract:
Under Section 3: Terms of Employment
3.1
- An Officer will serve the Company by operating any aircraft as defined in the Company’s Air Operator’s Certificate in any part of the world and on any of the routes served by the Company, including the operation of special or chartered flights as required by the Company, and perform such other duties in the air and/or on the ground that relate to the Company’s flight operations.
So unless I am mistaken, when did our AOC allow our pilot to operate aircraft own and registers by Flight Training Adelaide? Once these Instructors Cadets are hired as Instructors in ADL, they are no longer under CX training in Adelaide. They are working as instructors, so they are no longer the CX trainee. They are an employee of Flight Training Adelaide.
As for sending our pilots to work at another company, there is an exception: Under 3.2
3.2
- Notwithstanding 3.1 and subject to mutual agreement between the Company and the Officer, the Company may require a Company designated Check and Training Officer to serve in a Check and Training capacity with any associated company or other airline and the Officer will serve such associated company or other airline save that the Company will remain responsible to the Officer for such payments as he or she may be entitled to in respect of his or her service whether rendered to the Company or to any associated company or other airline. The Salary, allowances, benefits and Conditions of Service of such an Officer will be in accordance with the existing provisions of the agreement between the Officer and the Company. The Company will remain responsible to the Officer for an ongoing Risk Assessment of the Flying Standards of the associated company or other airline for the duration of the Check and Training Assignment.
So unless they are Check and Training Officer, the company can send them to another company to work for training purposes, however, there is a catch, they must to be under CX payroll.
But as we all know, these instructors cadets are NOT under CX payroll, CX are not paying them under contractual terms in our COS. Flight Training Adelaide is paying their payroll. So hence, they can not be officially hired by the company, or else they are in breach of our contract.
Also, if CX would like to argue that they are consider Check and Trainer at CX. Then it open a big cans of worms, there are HKCAD requirements to be met, company training requirements in HK, CAD approval etc. Therefore, I don't think CX will attempt to call the instructors cadet, CX Check and Training Officer.
Finally as for seniority, if you read Section 5 of our contact and Appendix 2 of our contract regarding "The Aircrew Seniority List", it spell out very clearly on how seniority can be assigned, and they DO NOT include entry via instructor cadets and it DOES NOT allow such by-pass of seniority in the contract promised to them by CX.
- 5.1. The Aircrew Seniority List was established in accordance with the terms and conditions as set out in Appendix 2 of these Conditions of Service.
Appendix 2:
THE AIRCREW SENIORITY LIST
With effect from 1st December 1998, a common seniority list for all pilots (“the Aircrew Seniority List”) was established as follows:
- All Senior Captains, Captains and Captains on Probation were assigned a seniority number equivalent to their position on the Aircrew Seniority List - Captains.
- All Senior First Officers, First Officers and Junior First Officers were assigned a seniority number at the end of the list in 1 above equivalent to their position on the Aircrew Command Seniority List.
- All Direct Entry Second Officers, and Second Officers who joined the Company through the Cadet Pilot Programme and who have completed a minimum of eighteen (18) months’ service, were assigned a seniority number at the end of the list in 2 above equivalent to their position on the Second Officer Seniority List.
- Second Officers who joined the Company through the Cadet Pilot Programme and who had not completed eighteen (18) months’ service on 1st December 1998 will be assigned a seniority number after completing eighteen (18) months’ service. Where such Officers have the same date of joining the older Officer will receive the more senior number.
Thereafter, seniority of Officers joining the Company will be established in accordance with 5.3 of these Conditions of Service.
So this is why I am at a cross road, I feel sorry for these instructors cadets because the company take advantaged of them, but I also feel sorry for the normal cadets entry pilot, DESO and even DEFO who are being cheated by these instructors cadets by-passing their seniority, and all the while HKAOA is not doing anything about it. In fact the HKAOA is helping these instructors cadets (who are not eligible to be a HKAOA member), instead of protecting our own pilot seniority system as per our contact.
These instructors cadets shouldn't be hired in their current form in the first place, but the company without consulting with anyone unilaterally hired them, and then cancelled their benefits. So should we and the HKAOA correct what was originally wrong to being with? If we correct this and give these instructors cadets their original contracted seniority, then we are probably breaching the contract / seniority of about 3-400 CX pilots (cadets entry, DEFO [probably no DESO at that point]).
So I hope everyone will understand why I am at a cross road here.