I forgot to mention that it was as most of you know, a Labor Govt. that brought down the 89ers, not a CEO, not a down turn in the economy, not a takeover, but a govt that turned on its own people to satisfy one of their capitalist mates (Abeles). And yes and most of us would admit, we were babes in the woods and walked right into it. PLEASE learn from that, yes it is a entirely different dispute, yes it is twenty years on, but it involves Pilots once again, many in the Liberal party at that time batted for us, but it was to late, you have a chance of getting them on side BEFORE anything happens, use it. I don't care if you think Gillard is the second coming, you must use every avenue you have, it is imperative to getting some success in your endeavors to achieve a good outcome, otherwise....................................