PPRuNe Forums - View Single Post - Logging IFR hours - is my thinking correct?
Old 6th Aug 2009, 19:59
  #13 (permalink)  
12Watt Tim
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: From Despair To Nowhere
Posts: 130
What a load of codswallop is being written here.

IFR has nothing to do with the reference, it is a set of flight rules. At the beginning of my log book it says nothing about what reference is being used. It says "...under instrument flight rules...".

If I am flying a visual approach I am still usually operating under instrument flight rules. In the UK, if I so choose and comply with the flight rules, I operate under instrument flight rules, regardless of conditions, service received or even qualifications. A holder of a PPL with no attached ratings is entitled to decide that while flying in VMC he is flying under IFR if he is in class F or G airspace. A commercial flight in VMC outside controlled airspace will be operated IFR by most companies for safety. At night in the UK outside controlled airspace IFR is the only option.

In fact not only is Wodka entitled, both legally and morally, to log flight in class A airspace as being under IFR, he is legally required to do so. It is very obvious when he is in class A that he is flying under IFR as he has not been given a special VFR clearance. Special VFR clearances must specifically state 'special VFR', and are not usually available for airways and TMA.

'what next' has admitted that while recruiting he has thrown away CVs of applicants due to his own misunderstanding of the rules, as it is entirely possible that the candidate he describes logged his hours correctly. OK, 'what next' might not be impressed by time logged IFR while flying VMC in class G and not wish to employ the person, but to blacklist a candidate and call him a cheat would be libellous if he identified an individual.

loftusb takes to the high moral ground, but tumbles down the slope when he actually gives a technically illegal answer.

SN3 Guppy mistakes reference for rules. Instrument Flight Rules, boys, not Instrument Flight Reference. As for increasing proficiency due to reference being flown when the autopilot is flying the aircraft, albeit with reference to the instruments, that is just plain daft. Yet a multicrew pilot might log time under IFR while asleep.

Please people, can we stick to informed answers, not personal opinion of what the rules should be?

For clarity: you must log time IFR any time you are operating under IFR. If you have an IR you can operate under IFR in any airspace, under any conditions, receiving any level of service. In class A airspace you must do so, unless in receipt of a SVFR clearance (as far as I am aware only available in class A CTRs, e.g. Heathrow and Jersey). If you have no instrument qualification you can still log time IFR outside controlled airspace in VMC in UK airspace.

So yes, Wodka, you should log IFR.

P.S. The only case I know of where flight '...by sole reference to instruments...' is referred to in the rules is for experience needed to instruct instrument flight. In that case every hour by sole reference counts for four hours of IFR towards those requirements. This of course confirms that time can be logged IFR when not flying by sole reference to instruments.
12Watt Tim is offline