PPRuNe Forums - View Single Post - JSF and A400M at risk?
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Old 2nd Oct 2008, 16:21
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Tim

Let me help you a little. You do seem to be having problems with certain ideas and concepts.

For a start, if Typhoon was navalised it would not mean extra Typhoon orders, it would however put paid to the UK JSF/F35 order. BAE Systems (who you STILL refer to as BAe) has very little to gain from this, but a huge amount to lose. It is not in their interests, or the wider economic and interests of the UK. UK industry will benefit hugely from JSF: not just BAE Systems, Rolls Royce and other major players like Martin Baker or Ultra Electronics, but smaller concerns all over the UK building various mechanical, electrical or electronic components or sub assemblies ranging from valves and actuators for the fuel system to contactors for the electrical systems and printed circuit board assemblies.

Secondly, your comment that "Thankfully, the final choice between JSF and Typhoon will not be made by naval aviators or the Navy" says sweet FA about the subjeect, but a lot about you. It struck me as one of the most stupid and arrogant things I've ever heard. Likewise, your rejection of arguments based on physics or those by people with experience of the landing aircraft on a ship, on the basis of something someone told you, makes you look like a self important fool.

Thirdly, you seem to ignore some key (but basic) issues.

Modifying Typhoon for carrier operation would mean strengthening or redesigning the landing gear so that it can deal with the stress of catapult launch and deck landing, and the rear fuselage so that it can take an arrestor hook and cope with the stresses of landing (with a very high landing speed compared with other naval aircraft). The weight penalties would reduce the weapon load and range. The need to design and analysis work would make this far more costly than you might think.

Additionally the need to catapults and arrestor gear would make the carriers more expensive to build, maintain and man (more personnel would be needed) compared with F35B. This is a fact the decision makers have to keep in mind.

As noted on similar threads, Typhoon has a high angle of attack as well as a high landing speed. The nose up attitude will mean that the pilot will not be able to see the carrier (or landing aids). I have heard talk of using a camera, attached to the nose wheel, connected to a cockpit in the screen. This idea has the words "bodge" and "Heath Robinson" all over it. The lack of a real world view, and the camera's restricted field of view (how compatible would it be with a system like GLIS?) would mean a real risk of pilot disorientation, particularly in poor weather, at night, or when the aircraft is in a degraded state. Therefore the risk of accidents would be higher. Deck landing accidents kill people, both pilots (and other aircrew) and flight deck personnel. You do realise this is what you are talking about, don't you?

On the subject of aircraft in a degraded state, what if the aircraft trying to land has been damaged? I have seen a picture of an A7 Corsair II that had done a wheels up barrier landing, suring the 1991 Gulf War, after ground fire meant that the landing gear could not be lowered. There are countless tales of damaged aircraft struggling back to the carrier, many of them from the Vietnam era Tonkin Gulf operations. Relatively minor damage to an aircraft depending on a nose wheel camera could mean that the camera system is put out of action by damage to electrical systems, or cockpit instrumentation. The aircraft would be unlandable due to minor damage. In other words survivability would be reduced.

None of this means it is impossible. It does mean that:

1. UK economic/industrial interests would be adversely affected.
2. The naval Typhoon would be more expensive, heavier, and have less range and weapon load than the land based counterpart.
3. The high landing speed and very limited view during landing would lead to more accidents and to lives being lost.
4. The fact that the pilot cannot see during landing without electronic aids would reduce the ability to recover damaged aircraft.

Doesn't seem like such a good idea now, does it?
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