This thread has now split into three separate arguments:
1.- Aircraft must not fly with ice/snow/contamination. I think the overwhelming consensus is that for well know aerodinamic reasons this is a no brainer - deice. I would doubt that many pilots will dispute that, but see point 3 below. Even the Iberia crew in question might not argue against it too much in the cold light of day whatever the particular circunstances that led to that bad decision on the day.
2.- Is it a good idea to name and shame crews in Pprune with specific airline, flight number and date? I don't think it is because we do not have all the facts, the crews involved cannot defend themselves and provide their side of the argument. This is unfair plus a lynch mob can, and in this case has, develop. All the benefits of discussion and learning from the mistakes of others can be had without naming specific crews. There are other more appropiate channels for investigating incidents with inbuilt checks and balances that can be used. An old CRM tool "discuss what is right not who is right".
3.- National pride and culture diferences. While I blush reading some of the stuff that some of my compatriots write in order to defend the indefensible it is also true that the brits love climbing into their high horse. In some threads in PPrune you would think that in the UK they pee Channel no 5 while the rest of us make do with the smelly yellow stuff. The attitude of "do it our way and you will be civilized like we are" creates its equal response of " we are right regardless and will not accept any form of criticism". Two ugly sides of the same coin and a definite obstacle to learning from each other.
On a slightly different tack I am bemused by the post by a passenger that says that he supervises the deicing. Does he have the current ATIS, does he know the current temperature, does he know what type of fluid are they using, does he have the holdover tables, has he done a winter ops corse, etc, etc, etc. I wonder if he also goes with the engineers to check the oil, does he check the tyre pressures, does he come into the flight deck to see how I fly the ILS, where does it stop. I think that passengers and indeed anybody should be encoraged to speak up if they see contamination on the wing (or indeed on any other safety issue). If a pax told me about contamination on my A/c i would be very grateful, I will tell him so and I would investigate. It does however smacks of delusions of grandeur to think that he supervises the deicing and it also implies that there are lots of aicraft flying around unsafely, this is clearly not true.
Last edited by calypso; 7th Dec 2007 at 17:57.