PPRuNe Forums - View Single Post - Virgin and DME arrivals
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Old 22nd Mar 2007, 09:41
  #18 (permalink)  
Scurvy.D.Dog
I'm in one of those moods
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
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… some points to consider:-
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1... this company SOP effectively equates to a ‘minimum’ 500ft higher than my general CB (cloud base) cut off for a DME ARR (dependant on category of course), more likely 1,000ft. In other words, a 1,000ft buffer above 1,500AGL for possible cloud base variations (IMHO it is harder to accurately quantify the higher the CB). It all depends on the type and disposition of the cloud at the time of approach considering level assignment possibilities for other traffic!
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2.. if there is any doubt about the CB, direct to the IAF for a runway aligned approach is doable (with consideration of other arriving and departing traffic) and is used frequently in our case, but it needs to be planned ahead of time!
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3… if you are number 1 in a sequence of 2 or more (ahead of other operators in any event), perhaps even ahead by up to 5 mins, then you WILL be bumped in the sequence if there is any doubt about the CB and the duty runway aligned APP is not close to your inbound track! …otherwise the subsequent hold ups mean lengthy and unnecessary delays for others arriving in the circling area around the same time as you, in other words, penalising other traffic who CAN fly a DME ARR (not runway aligned) to well below the CB for circling and land before you are even established inbound!
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4… subsequent conflicting traffic arrivals (including those who require an ILS or VOR APP) will end up with a higher level assignment and subsequent holding may also be required as the DME ARR missed approach must be considered until the first aircraft reports visual, which will likely happen substantially sooner than you would on the runway aligned APP if your runway aligned approach requires an outbound and/or ARC leg
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.. note:- tracking and runway orientation will dictate the amount of this vertical sequencing/timing effect. It will vary dependant on how close the inbound track is to or aligned with the ‘landing’ runway and missed approach track!
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5… the change in sequence and subsequent approach miles flown in lots of cases will mean an additional 8-12 mins in the air (not necessarily only for you)!!!!
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6… surveillance APP/DEP would do the same if DME ARR’s were used frequently … they are not for obvious reasons, and most approaches are runway aligned at primaries (with vectoring) so there is no efficiency comparison to be made PROC V’s RADAR ….. apples and oranges ….before anyone starts!
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.. anecdotally, the A320, B737, DHC8, BE20, C404 crews that operate though here know how to nail the DME ARR profiles …. ATC assessing the DME ARR as suitable is useless if the aircraft arrives over the VOR at 4,000ft!!!
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.. and one last thang …. If we quote ‘Instrument Approach’ … do not just set up for a VOR or ILS and not tell anyone … call the tower direct on the spare comm or through the sector driver and ask what to expect (APP and actual WX) or TELL US IF YOU HAVE SET-UP FOR A SPECIFIC APPROACH … at least then the same rules apply (as above) with the added benefit of having time to plan others around it!
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…. missed approaches off a DME ARR .. haven’t seen many … usually result in a ‘subsequent’ runway aligned approach .. in many cases little if any lost time (compared with O/head outbound) .. why would you NOT take the opportunity to save heaps of time and fuel when ATC 99% of the time gets the CB right enough … and on the very odd occasion that they do not, it is not a big deal …. is it??
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I mean … others ‘in similar types’ fly DME ARR’s and ‘non duty’ runway aligned approaches then circle for the active (gives you a look at the sock/s as well) … they practice it (subject to traffic), and fly them in anger also! ...why the reluctance to pole the aircraft around the circling areas?
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. ... makes me wonder how many ILS’s are flown to runways with downwind outside tower hours?!
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… crews (of all colours) sent down to ‘this part’ of the south seem to know what they are doing!! ….. must be a QLD thing!
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.. that should have em’ foaming .. nite all!
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