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Old 24th Dec 2022, 12:36
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m0nkfish
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
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Originally Posted by Lima Juliet
BV

But you’re not factoring in the fact that the country has been through a lot of dwang in the past 10-14 years - financial crashes, mismanagement by Lab/Con/Lib Governments, a once in a generation global pandemic, a significant war in mainland Europe, BREXIT (a minor but not insignificant problem compared to the rest) and then the vagaries of no less than 3 defence reviews in that time. Do you really think that we would be seriously significantly better off after all of that? At best we could only hope for a modest improvement (which I believe we have).

Also, there has been significant change in how we’re all paid - you mentioned PAS, which came in 2003, but other things changed too (PAY16, RRP(F) changes, lump sums and timed promotion changes). They all make a significant change when you look at those,

There is another comparator as all of the pay reviews are available. So let’s look at a 15 year Flt Lt on flying pay in 2004 versus one in 2022 (18 years apart).

In 2004 it took 3.5 years for a graduate to get to Flt Lt (5.5 years for a non-grad) and so after 15 years they would be top level 9 Flt Lt in year 13 which paid £37,883 pa plus they would have gone to Initial Rate after passing their OCU. In those days a jet-jockey like yourself would be through the OCU by around 4 years. So initial rate year 4, middle rate year 8 and top rate year 12. So in year 15 they would be on top rate flying pay of £31.87 a day. That is £11,632 pa plus £37,883 - total £49,515 pa. If they stayed a Flt Lt and wanted to stay in they would be boarded for PAS by 16/38.

Now in 2022 it takes everyone 2.5 years to get to Flt Lt and so they will be top level OF2-8 of £52,868 pa by year 15. Their basic annual pay up to that point will be better than their 2004 predecessor on annual basis too. Now, things haven’t been going so well for this character in flying training and it has taken 6 years to get post OCU, but luckily they transition to the new RRP(F) at OCU+6 having been paid 4 years of Initial Rate and 2 years of Middle Rate on the legacy scheme before jumping onto Tier 2 Rate 1 in year 12 and by year 13 they are on Tier 2 Rate 3 paying £50.66 a day or £18,490 pa. Add the Main Pay and RRP(F) then you get £71,358. Also, at OCU+7 they can take a £70k one-off lump sum or wait until 1 Apr 23 and take the first of 2x £40k lump sums. Access to PAS is now at 20/40 for most given then new pension schemes.

Now using the Bank of England inflation calculator then 2004’s £49,515 is worth roughly £77,665 in Apr 22, about £6k more than the 2022 Flt Lt. That is the very basic calculation that you are doing, which does not take into account the earlier promotion to Flt Lt (3 years earlier for non-grads!), the access to larger amounts of RRP(F) over several years and the lump sums. Even if you do a basic £70k divided by the 6 year return of service then you get £11.5k more than the 2004 Flt Lt per year, less the inflation makes it £5.5k better off. The 2022 Flt Lt is most definitely better off, in so-called “real terms”, than the 2004 Flt Lt, when you add it all up. That’s even whilst we’re in the dwang financially as I mentioned previously.

However, I do agree that the overall “offer” is poorer due to the erosion of the standards in Mess accommodation, SFA, food, medical provision, fun factor, lack of HR support, opportunity, working day hours and the feeling of pride, Paying people more money will never fix that, in fact it could make some things much worse! Which is why I standby my comment that pay is not the answer, but just a small element of it - I know that personally when I took a pay cut to improve my own quality of life. So I fully agree “a dramatic improval in standard of living is the only way to stop the rot” but I think we need to be careful giving the new bods an accurate picture of where they are financially rather than the slightly over-simplified view of %ge pay rises versus inflation (which I think we agree on too?).

LJ
It's true the country has endured a lot of 'dwang' in the last 10 years, but it's public sector workers who have felt the pressure of austerity the most. The private sector seems to have had a better few years, which probably explains why nurses, doctors and dentists prefer to work privately now as they get paid more.

It's a shame the government doesn't finally put some meat on the bones of the 'military covernant' by enshrining a minimum pay increase for military salaries linked to inflation into law. They bend over backwards for pensioners with a triple lock guarantee but, IMHO, honestly couldn't give a toss for the military who always just get on with the job without complaining.

Looking at the problem specifically for pilots for a second, flying pay should be binned and replaced with an entirely separate pay spine for pilots, separated out by rank as is done for other specialist trades. The spine should initially start on parity with other trades and rise slowly at the start to reflect the investment the RAF is making by way of training. After 5-6 years the increments should start to increase and reach a broadly similar amount to commercial left hand seat by the 20/40 point, with further rises peaking somewhere near a training captain salary. Maybe then more pilots will stick around, and the RAF might actually have a choice in who stays after their minimum pensionable term.
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