PPRuNe Forums - View Single Post - Boris and bilateral security assurances: Sweden and Finland
Old 12th May 2022, 17:26
  #38 (permalink)  
Lonewolf_50
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Texas
Age: 64
Posts: 7,196
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I'll just leave this here.
Is Ukraine about to have a war?

Prunus, you have an incomplete grasp of NATO out of area operations.

1. NATO's out of area operation in Former Yugoslavia that began in 1995 (on land) was a substantial change in direction from NATO's purpose up to November/December of 1995. (IFOR). It was done as a peace enforcement operation under Article 51 of the UN charter (follow on the UNPROFOR (unsuccessful) attempts at stopping a civil war) and was explicitly based on a peace agreement ironed out (grudgingly) in 1995 in Dayton Ohio between the three major parties in the conflict. You can have your own opinions, but you can't have your own facts.

It is my view that the same cannot be said for the subsequent operations in 1999, although they were certainly related politically. I thought it was a bad idea at the time, and as time has gone on it has looked even worse than when I informed that opinion at the time.

2. The decision by various NATO members to support the US in what became ISAF in Afghanistan was a conclusion reached in multiple capitals that an attack on the US (a NATO member) was within the Article V scheme.
Osama and his crew were based in Afghanistan at the time. (In part because his own national government in Saudi found him persona non grata). You can argue about whether any NATO nation should, or should not, have been involved until you are blue in the face. That's opinion, not fact.
There was massive international support (not just NATO support) for that operation in 2001, and in the early 00's.
When I was involved with that op we had Kiwi and Ozzie support, neither of which were NATO nations, and IIRC some Eastern Bloc nations contributed troops. (But that was going on as I rolled back home so memory does not serve, at the moment, if it was Hungarians or someone else).

You choose to ignore that Afghanistan's government in the late 1990's was providing support and sanctuary for the terrorist group that attacked the two US embassies in Eastern Africa (Kenya, Tanzania). Sadly, the Tomahawk strikes that were sent towards a few of those terrorist group's bases didn't take out their leadership ... if they had maybe the world would be a different place today. That same group set up the World Trade Center and Pentagon attacks, and IIRC the Bali attacks.
Afghanistan/Taliban did not have clean hands.
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