Originally Posted by
682al
I went into this topic (i.e. the under gun mounting) in some detail while researching at The National Archives many years ago. The facts contained in several Bomber Command files that I studied are at odds with what you tend to read in books published since the '60s (and, by extension, what you read in threads such as this.).
Bomber Command had actually picked up on the increase in attacks from beneath as early as the summer of 1942, almost as soon as the upward firing guns were trialled by the Luftwaffe. While the nature of the attacks was recognised, the means of delivering them was not immediately identified.
Saundby chaired a conference at Bomber Command in the autumn of 1943 with a view to making urgent improvements to the under defence of our aircraft (this had come from Harris). Particular reference was made to a one-off installation of a .303" gun in the lower escape hatch of a Stirling - it was a local initiative by an Engineering Officer if I recall correctly.
A scheme was devised by the Bomber Development Unit which consisted of a single .5" Browning as illustrated above by longer ron. It was ackowledged as being a "lash up" right from the start. There was a version for the Stirling, Lancaster and Halifax and there was to have been a version for the Wellington but I was never able to establish if this actually went ahead. The requirement was for all aircraft of the Main Force to be equipped and also those of the Conversion Units.
Of the three installations, the Halifax was considered to be the least satisfactory and it was re-worked into what is referred to as the Preston Green mounting. I cannot say this with 100% certainty but I have been unable to find any commercial firm with such a name - it is however interesting to note that the Handley-Page representative at the conference was a Mr. P.T. Green - perhaps he got given the job of improving the original installation?
The whole scheme was meant to go ahead with the usual energy and priority (Harris was probably thinking of those long winter nights on the road to Berlin and other Eastern German destinations). Installations were made on the bomber production lines and conversion sets were delivered straight to the Squadrons. There were some delays in obtaining the necessary conversion parts (mostly the gun mountings from U.S.A.), and some Squadrons with Mk. II Lancasters initially received the wrong conversion sets, but by the end of 1943 the work was going ahead at full speed. I have seen communications from the Groups indicating that the work was largely complete by early 1944*, however this coincides with the period when H2S was being installed so it must have been a particularly hectic time on those airfields, gun one week, radar set the next!
In the end, and as already pointed out, the installation of H2S took priority over the under gun. Some surviving aircraft and left over conversions sets were passed on to 3 Group (no requirement for H2S) and some were still in use at the war's end.
That's about as far as my research took me. What's missing from the narrative is just how much use was made of the installation by the Squadrons, i.e. were they enthusiastically received and put to use or just treated as another rush job with little practical value? I've seen individual accounts of an eighth crew member being taken on ops, sometimes a "spare bod" gunner and sometimes even a volunteer from ground crew, but I've never come across a comprehensive report from the end-users which perhaps helps explain the general level of ignorance about this topic.
These notes are taken from memory as I do not have access to my files at the moment. When I do, I'll correct any errors that have crept in.
* All those Airfix/Revell/Frog/Hasegawa Lancs, Stirlings and Halifaxes on the modelling forums which ought to have the gun but don't!
Interesting post.
However SM wasn't used until Peenemunde , 16/17th August 43. Even in early 44, only about 30% of nightfighters were fitted with it. It was usually given to experienced crews.
I haven't seen the Saundby conference notes, so cannot comment. However ,as mentioned before there are no conclusive reports of SM being used. The only thing I have ever seen was inconclusive.
When the Saundby conference would have taken place, there would have been very few SM equipped nightfighters, so I remain sceptical.
Early MK 2 Lancs were fitted with a ventral turret, but it was removed. As far as I know there were no H2S MkII Lancs and there were only about half a dozen or less squadrons were equipped with the MKII and by D Day, only 2 still flew them.
My final point is again Freeman Dyson, he maintained that BC Operational Research knew nothing about SM.
If that was indeed the case, then Saundby or somebody is guilty of a cover up.