In the knowledge I may be feeding a troll and at the risk of repeating much that has been said I will bite one last time.
The friend, whom I mentioned in a previous post, was unable to respond when the King asked him what he was going to do after the war. The thought he might survive had never occurred to him. Survival in a bomber was, he once told me, purely a matter of luck not skill. One continued flying until one’s number was up – he was very lucky; he completed three tours in heavy bombers.
Membership of this forum is intended to be for those of us who at some point in our lives agreed, mostly voluntarily, to risk our lives defence of our country and its allies in an aviation related capacity. We did so in the knowledge that we may called on to be part of a process that killed other human beings, for whom we had no personal animosity or of whom we had no knowledge. All others are guests of the mess and remain welcome if they follow its rules and they treat the members with respect and courtesy.
To accuse, therefore, the majority of us who support the preservation of the statue which in its essence commemorates others who lost their lives doing their lawful duty in a just cause of living in a filter bubble is nothing short of bizarre. Many of us have had long and varied careers since leaving service life. We know others are misinformed and prejudiced that is why we are prepared to argue so vehemently. There are a number of statues and memorials I personally find offensive – they should all remain standing. As we appear to be quoting scripture: “Let he who is without sin cast the first stone.” Those so confronted by Jesus reflected on this and all dropped their stones.
The economy of the Nazi state was almost entirely devoted to supporting the war effort therefore all its factories, infrastructure and civilians working in them were legitimate targets. The nature of technology at the time meant mass bombing was the only effective means of attack. The destruction of these was the objective, the collapse of civilian morale a hoped-for side effect. Unrealistic to those who had lived through the blitz.
To echo
TDRacer the Nazi and Japanese War Criminals were war criminals because they 1) waged aggressive war and 2) committed acts against civilians
in occupied territories and against prisoners of war that were prohibited by the Hague Conventions and the Geneva Convention (1929). In respect of the submariners of all nations, ASW technology had advanced to an extent that made complying with the letter of the law tantamount to suicide. This was tacitly acknowledged by the almost complete absence of prosecutions.
The laws of war have changed dramatically since the end of WW2. Even in these days of precision guided weapons there are civilian casualties. It should be remembered the laws of war are international agreements made by parties who do not want to limit their own ability to prosecute a successful military action
. It is only the availability of precision weapons that made their use effectively compulsory.
OJ 72 on a lighter note, my late friend was a pre-war RAFC graduate. Early in the war he sometimes flew as the navigator before Navigators existed (which later they did sense having prevailed
).
To Clarify: Risking ones life in an aviation related capacity does not just mean flying or frontline - it includes all those service or civilianwho enable the flying to happen. For instance the casualties in RAF and FAA airfields in WW2 bear testament to this.
What I was getting at was by becoming involved in any capacity one became a legitimate target in the event of conflict, however unlikely, even if one was making tea in a NAAFI wagon. Members to a greater or much lesser extent therefore share a common experience of being a legitimate target with the bomber crews. However, unlike most of them and conscripts like National Servicemen we became so voluntarily. By predicting the weather for an operation a met (wo)man is involved in the process that kills or injures an enemy and I would hope understands that.