Originally Posted by
Pittsextra
Well now you are getting to the nub of the situation and not all necessarily linked..........
Which brings us to the final complaint- that of money. I don’t think these flights necessarily take business away from commercial operators because the flight hasn’t been generated in a way that they would even be visible. This isn’t some company secretary booking flights for business owners. This is private individuals offering the opportunity to friends based upon individual relationships. Mis-guided or not that is how it is and because of that the cash flows become impossible to trace to a flight.
Hi
Pitts. I think you are sort of right there but this is my take on it so interested in your views - and anyone else as well
Shy.
a) "This isn’t some company secretary booking flights for business owners." Yes, I agree so someone who regularly uses Charters for work and has been for some time would go to the likes of Netjets or one of the many other smaller but well established operators as they have always done. No problem there.
b) "private individuals offering the opportunity to friends based upon individual relationships." This is how Club-type arrangements operated whereby Club members shared flying (say 2 PPLs who can now afford a landaway as the trip cost is shared or even a PPL would maybe bring a couple of mates from home along (individual
pre-existing relationships)) and they'd go flying with the mates chucking in money towards the cost. The descriptor "pre-existing" is key here IMHO. It's existing friends of the pilot who decide to have a jolly and thereby permit the PPL to spread their wings a bit more so to speak and the PPL perhaps to show them why they have been so "boring" all these months while doing their PPL.
c) Wingly/Coavmi actually don't do this. What they do is have "private individuals offering the opportunity to
people previously unknown to them and put in touch by Wingly/Coavmi to go flying" and with whom there is a one-off relationship set up (ie for that flight). One could say some may stay in touch but the original "transaction" was actually between strangers who may not even have met until they all pitch up at the airfield on the allotted day and may never see each other again.
This is where it all starts to unravel if you ask me as "taking strangers for flights" is akin Charter work (yes, regular customers become known to Pilots but, essentially, there is no "personal relationship" pre-existing). In addition, the PPL can "offer" prospective passengers destinations or activities which the passengers "book" on a front end which looks quite like an airline booking engine and traditional been the preserve of Charter companies offering "sightseeing tours" etc. As I said before, it's quite easy to "fudge" the costs to make it look like everyone pays as, well, what's the likelyhood of the CAA checking? Since it so easy, such "offers" can appear as a regular offer. Many of the pilots on the sites say "I can do a trip to X and back any Saturday or Sunday for the next Y months". They even advertise "sightseeing flights"! Again, that looks like a "schedule" or a "charter" now. I've already dealt in a previous post with "benefit in kind" as the actual payment mechanism.
The only advantage is that it gives people who have never flown before a chance to go flying at a reduced cost "to promote aviation to the general public". Many Charter companies offered such people the chance but, of course, now they can do it cheaper but, tbh, this is a very minor benefit to the general public who have less protection than they would should the fly with a Charter company.
Finally, the case in point here (the Sala flight) could be generated when one of the people who takes a Wingly flight then passes it on to a friend of theirs. "Had this great trip with this Pilot, why don't you give him a go?" or even say "Look, that was a great day out. I'm off to the "name your event" next month, you wouldn't be free on that day to fly me and some friends there? Just set it up on Wingly and we'll get that sorted!". After all, we know how personal recommendations lead to loads of things happening in aviation (many of my students came to me that way when I was instructing!). Before long, your PPL is "well known" and poor Emiliano climbs aboard completely unaware of what is going on.
Like
Shy, I was a bit confused by the earlier part of your Post but the above is my take (probably expressed poorly!) on your last para. There was always a bit of scope for "grey charters" but the Wingly/Coavmi setups make it so much easier. And while PPLs may start off in the spirit intended, well, one thing leads to another and hey, "grey charters"! Cynical? Maybe - but I've seen too much of human nature - sadly. "Del-boy" is always out there! Anyway, just my view - happy to discuss!
Cheers,
H 'n' H